Cross-examination resumed.--What other jobs did you for the a.s.sociation?--I did several jobs; that I will not deny.
How much have you had for these little jobs?--I declare upon my oath, I cannot state particularly how much I had for these little jobs. I made a charge. I don"t recollect exactly what my charge was.
Come, come, the round sum?--I can tell you pretty nearly the round sum, if that will satisfy you. I think it was above seven pounds and under seven guineas. I was sent on other business beside this.
I wish to know what that other business was?--Is it necessary to answer that question?
I think it necessary.--Then I will take the sense of the Court upon it. I have no objection to answer that or any other question, if my Lord thinks I ought.
Mr. Justice BEST (smiling).--It tends to nothing; but it is as well to answer it.
Then I purchased come other different things for the a.s.sociation, but it was not in consequence of any general or particular orders I received: I went to purchase these publications which I myself thought libels; I cannot state exactly now what they were.
Then you did that, I suppose, without any hope of reward?--I don"t state without any hope of reward; I expected to be paid for my time.
Oh, then, it was not altogether out of virtue and patriotic feeling?--Those were two of my motives, most certainly, but not the only ones (general laughing).
Has this been the usual way of getting your living?--It has for a year and a half past; I have had no other feasible occupation during that time.
I suppose you received a considerable sum in the course of this honourable employment?--I have told you the sum total was about 7 pounds.
Mr. Justice BEST.--Do you think that material, Mr. Cooper?
Mr. COOPER.--I do think it material, to show the sort of agents that this honourable society employs. (To witness.) And what did you do before you suppressed vice and libels?--I got my living honourably as an officer in his Majesty"s customs.
And are you still an honourable officer, &c.?--No; I have lost my situation.
Retired upon a pension?--No.
How old are you?--Fifty-four.
No pension, eh?--None.
Re-examined by Mr. GURNEY.--I have been in the employment of the Society for the Suppression of Vice for a year and a half; I have been paid by them for my services. In this instance, and in several others, I have made some purchases for the Const.i.tutional a.s.sociation.
_Horatio Orton_ was then called. A general murmur ran through the Court, which was crowded to excess; and all persons most deferentially gave the witness way.
Examined by Mr. GURNEY.--I was a witness before the Grand Jury. On the 10th of March I purchased another copy of the pamphlet in question from Mary Anne Carlile; I had it from her own hand.
Cross-examined by Mr. COOPER.--How came you to purchase this on the 10th of March?--I was directed by Mr. Murray, the solicitor, to purchase it.
This is the gentleman? (pointing to Mr. Murray, in court)--Yes.
He is the Honorary Secretary to the a.s.sociation, and the disinterested attorney for this prosecution?--Yes, I was sent by him for the express purpose of purchasing this pamphlet; I should not have gone if I had not been directed by him.
What is your situation in the society?--My situation to the a.s.sociation is as clerk.
Clerk to Mr. Murray?--No; I am not in Mr. Murray"s office.
In the Society"s office, separate from the attorney"s office?--Yes.
In what situation were you before?--I used to a.s.sist my brother in his correspondence with country newspapers.
Not for the town papers?--No, for himself; he takes the reports of the House of Lords" proceedings, and transmits them to the editors of the country papers; I used to a.s.sist him in the copying, and he paid me for my trouble.
What is your salary in your present honourable situation?--It is not fixed.
It depends upon your exertions?--Yes.
Then you work at present by the piece?--No, I do not; the committee have not yet come to a determination about my salary; I have not made any demand for salary; I have not proposed any sum; I mean to swear that; not any sum has been proposed to me; I don"t say that I would work for the Society gratuitously; if I want five or ten pounds I know where to go for it; not of the a.s.sociation; I can have it of my brother; I expect to receive something of the a.s.sociation.
In your modesty, what may be the extent of your expectations?
Mr. GURNEY submitted that this was not a proper mode of cross-examination.
Mr. COOPER.--I think it is, and I shall persist in it until I am told by my Lord that it is irregular.
Mr. Justice BEST.--I don"t think any part of the cross-examination is approaching to anything like regularity.
Mr. COOPER.--If your Lordship says I am not to be allowed the same lat.i.tude which is allowed to counsel on other occasions, I shall not persevere.
Mr. Justice BEST.--I have no objection to your taking your own course, but I think this course of examination ought to have been stopped long ago. I think every fair and reasonable indulgence ought to be allowed to counsel in such a case, but if this was a mere civil case I should have stopped you long ago.
Mr. COOPER.--Then I shall proceed in my own way, with your Lordship"s permission. (To witness.) Is this the first job you have been employed in?--I don"t recollect any other of this kind.
Are you sure you have been employed upon no other job of this kind?--I cannot bring to my recollection whether I have not been employed on any other. I may have been, but I am not aware of any.
Do you know a man named King?--Yes, perfectly.
Do you recollect doing a job in which he was concerned?--I don"t recollect doing a job of this kind against King. I might if I saw the paper before me with my mark upon it. There are so many of them that I cannot recollect any in particular.
Have you not made an affidavit in the job against King?--Yes; but that is since this. I cannot recollect whether I have done any other jobs. I have been in the employment of the a.s.sociation about six months. I commenced on the 8th of January. Since the 10th of March, I don"t recollect how many jobs I have been engaged in; they are so numerous I can"t recollect. The orders which Mr. Murray gave me, were to go and purchase the Reformers" Address at the defendant"s shop. I had not any general directions to buy at this or that shop--not from Mr. Murray. I had from other persons, general directions to make purchase of works; one of those persons was Mr. Sharpe.
He is the Honorary a.s.sistant Secretary?--Yes.
(All the preceding questions excited considerable sensations amongst the audience, and produced a chorus of humourous t.i.ttering).
Mr. Justice BEST.--The effect of these questions, Mr. Cooper, you must feel. You cannot wish, I am sure, to excite the sort of response which comes from below the bar. You must see that it is done on purpose. You cannot wish, I am sure, to produce that effect.
Mr. COOPER.--My Lord, I am the last man in the world to do any thing inconsistent with the gravity and decorum of a Court of Justice. I disclaim any such intention; and I must disdain the insinuation of Mr.
Gurney, that I have taken up this cause for the purpose of adding to the public odium in which the honourable a.s.sociation is held.
Mr. GURNEY said his learned friend, Mr. Cooper, was mistaken; he had never insinuated anything of the kind.
Mr. Justice BEST.--I am sure no gentlemen at the bar would wish to produce the effect which all the questions put by you have had below the bar.
Mr. COOPER said he could not control the feelings of the auditory. He was only anxious to do his duty to the best of his humble ability, and nothing should deter him from discharging that duty freely and undauntedly.