Believe me, your faithful and obliged,
JOSEPH PHILLIMORE.
MR. CHARLES W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
March 15, 1821.
I am most sensible, my dear B----, of the kindness of your continued and active interest for Henry, and, if I saw anything like an opening, should not hesitate to follow up the overture which you have made in his behalf; but unless some new circ.u.mstance had occurred since your letter to Lord Liverpool, which presented a mode of effecting its object, I really should think it too early to make a second application; besides which, I quite agree with my uncle, that, in the present situation of affairs, it is preferable that any application of this nature should, as you have yourself determined, proceed through Lord Liverpool rather than Lord Castlereagh; but if I can get an opportunity of reminding Castlereagh, I certainly will not neglect it.
Everything I see and everything I hear contribute to make me more and more sanguine respecting the Catholic question. The tide clearly sets at present in its favour, and the King"s good inclinations are every day more and more surmised. The princ.i.p.al defalcation of strength which we have to apprehend arises from the present disjointed and divided state of the Opposition, the members of which are outrageous against each other, and, according to Macdonald"s report, may be expected by the next Session to split into three or more distinct parties. He did not specify either the persons likely to form these, or the points in dispute. At present one can only see the Mountain and their lukewarm coadjutors; but what the third is to be, remains to be shown. The amendments which you suggest to the Catholic Bills appear to me, in general, improvements, with the exception of the addition of the Chancellorship of Ireland to the excepted offices, and the requiring that the King should signify his _approbation_ to the Bishops before the exercise of episcopal functions. Both of these would have the effect of extremely diminishing the _effect_ of the measure in Ireland.
Lord Grenville strongly objected to the exception even of the English Chancellor, as justifiable upon no principle, when the exercise of ecclesiastical patronage had been provided for in the other part of the Bill; and it is difficult to discover what principle can justify the exclusion of the Chancellor of Ireland, which would not also extend to every other judicial situation. We must recollect that the Irish Catholic barristers are just the body who have, after the priests, the greatest influence, and whom it is most desirable not to leave a perpetual badge of degradation and inferiority upon. With respect to the necessity of signifying the King"s express approbation, it is one of the points which the Irish clergy most objected to, and the omission of which has most reconciled them to the measure; and if the efficient control is attained, it surely is desirable that we should not be nice as to the exact mode in which it shall be exerted. In my own view--and, what is far more important, in that of my uncle--the question of securities is, from the great alteration in the situation of Europe since 1813, become of comparatively small importance, and rather to be conceded to satisfy the scruples of others, and facilitate the final success of this great measure, than to be insisted upon by ourselves.
Dawson"s speech against the army estimates last night occasioned surprise, and looks as if the Catholic question had occasioned some hitch in his _beau-pere_ Peel"s negotiations.
Ever most faithfully yours,
C. W. W.
MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Pall Mall, March 16, 1821.
MY DEAR LORD,
I am hurried to death by the time, and therefore must make my relation short I endeavoured to meet the Duke yesterday morning; but failing in this, I enclosed your note to me, saying I owed it to him not to withhold such information for his _private ear_, and desiring him to send me back your note. He sent it back in half an hour, with the enclosed note from himself. This morning he begged to see me; and being on a Committee, and not released till four o"clock, I have only at this moment come from him at his office.
He entered into a very full discussion of the whole business; and, first and foremost, declared in most positive and unequivocal terms, that he was perfectly innocent of the charge imputed to him, and that, fortunately, he had been so guarded in his whole proceedings throughout this disagreeable quarrel between Lord W---- and his wife, that he should be enabled most fully and clearly to rebut and destroy any charge ... that might be brought against him.
But feeling this, however, very strongly, he had been to Lord C---- this morning; had consulted with him upon it; and, for the sake of the family, he thought it most essential, and most highly desirable, if possible, to prevent Lord W---- from bringing the charge forward. He considered Lord W----"s object to be founded exclusively on a wish to blacken her character, and to enable him to come forward with more effect in his defence (which he must make) in the case in which he is involved with Mr. W----; that however much he might blacken her in the first instance, it would ultimately recoil on himself, and therefore it was a real object to stop the further proceedings, if possible; that he (the Duke) had done everything in his power to reconcile the differences throughout, and that such must appear if Lord W---- persisted.
These were the grounds on which, as a gentleman (without adverting to a personal consideration), he thinks he ought to advise that a stop should be put to W----"s further prosecution of this charge against his wife. The _habeas corpus_ has been demanded, and must be discussed to-morrow, at _three_ o"clock, in the Chancellor"s private chamber; but in this discussion, if Lord W---- persists, this business must be gone into. The great object, therefore, that the Duke would recommend is, that you should, if you think proper, before that time communicate by a special messenger to W----, or to the individual through whom you gained your information, and endeavour to persuade him (the Duke being so completely armed against such a charge, and so prepared to refute it ultimately), that it could only for a moment serve his purpose, but in the end would damage his case. Indeed, I am persuaded, from what he said, that if W---- abandoned this attack on his wife, there would be little doubt that Mr. W---- would ultimately give way, and not call him up for his defence. In the many communications which W---- has had with the Duke, he has, at various times, not only personally, but by letter, absolved the Duke from all suspicion on his part of criminality ... and the Duke, throughout all these transactions and communications which he has had with Lady W----, has uniformly and constantly consulted and advised with her brother, Lord C----, upon them.
I have written to you, therefore, as I a.s.sured the Duke I would do, and at his desire, and have ventured to say that I was quite sure you would view the circ.u.mstance on the same liberal and gentlemanly grounds he had put it, and endeavour to use your influence (if you have any) to stay the further proceedings on this charge, by sending up a servant to the party or parties, as you might think most advisable, before three o"clock to-morrow--it is now nearly six.
Ever yours,
W. H. FREMANTLE.
MR. CHARLES W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
MY DEAR B----,
The whole of the third volume of the "Notice des Ma.n.u.scrits de la Bibliotheque du Roi" is occupied with an account of the MSS.
relative to the proceedings against Joan of Arc. There is an account of one which appears to be a duplicate of yours, though I think the number of pages is less, and every page is mentioned to be verified by the signatures of the notaries, who are called Terrebone and Dionysius Comitis, and which is mentioned to be lettered "Processus Justificationis Joannae d"Arc." Probably this with the date may be the best for your book. I take for granted you have the "Notice des Ma.n.u.scrits" at Stowe; and as the account is a very detailed one, it will be very desirable to compare your MS.
with it. Perhaps, however, this may be best done in town.
We only go into the Committee to-day _pro forma_, in order to reprint and then recommit for discussion on Wednesday. The oath is now to be a new one, embodying the explanation, which is thought better than adhering to the old one, for which I am rather sorry.
Everything looks favourably. Walter Burrell, Sir Hussey Vivian, Curteis of Suss.e.x, Fox Lane, have all declared their intentions of not voting in the Committee, and we hope others may follow the example; but it is a period of nervous suspense. The debate on Friday was one of great forbearance, and it is difficult to say whether Peel most spared Mackintosh--or Canning, Peel. Canning stated that there was as great a community of sentiment between Peel and himself as could well subsist between public men. His speech and Wilberforce"s were both uncommonly good.
I had some conversation with Plunket on Sat.u.r.day about his views, and I am sorry to find him most disinclined--indeed, I might say almost resolved--against taking any office which would fix him in England, and looking only to the Attorney-Generalship and Great Seal of Ireland, but thinking that he could, while in the former office, give considerable attendance in the House of Commons.
He appeared to feel that there was no longer any obstacle to his taking office under the present Government, as now const.i.tuted, and to be well disposed to accept the offer of the Attorney-Generalship of Ireland whenever they can make room for him, though he would much prefer coming in with us.
Ever affectionately yours,
C. W. W.
MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Stanhope Street, March 20, 1821.
MY DEAR LORD,
I have seen the Duke, who desired me to express to you his very sincere thanks for the trouble you have taken in the subject of this detestable quarrel of the W----s. He a.s.sured me he would never mention your name to any human being; and you may rest a.s.sured that no letter to me shall ever go out of my hands.
With regard to leaving the whole matter in dispute to the arbitration of mutual friends, the Duke says there is no difficulty whatever in procuring Lady W----"s consent to it; she has repeatedly offered it, and is now ready to abide by such a reference. With regard to the child, this is a subject that must be decided by the Court, and cannot, and ought not, to form a part of the reference.
If the father is ent.i.tled to take his child, he will, of course, have it; and there seems to be no doubt on this point. The real question of reference would be the litigation which is now carrying on between Lord W---- and Mr. W----, and the pecuniary arrangements and formal separation of the parties.
The Duke says, that, with regard to the dispute between Lord W---- and Mr. W----, it stands independent of all other subjects; and as Lord W---- is now compelled to put in his answer (the rule being made absolute), and as the case must ultimately be most injurious and disgraceful in all its bearings to Lord W---- (as it affects his conduct to Mr. W----), he thinks the best advice to be given to Lord W----, and the best course for him to follow, would be for him to write a letter to Mr. W----, saying that though he still condemns, and shall never cease to condemn, the injurious manner in which Mr. W----"s counsel had thought proper and been advised to treat him in his pleadings, yet he was sorry for the conduct he had adopted to Mr. W---- in consequence thereof, and was ready to offer his apology. This would satisfy W----, and stop his further proceedings, and thus end this part of the business. The second consideration--namely, the separation and allowance--this must now, of course, be decided, and under some strict and clear covenant; and which, undoubtedly, could best be done by arbitration of mutual friends. Lord C---- would guarantee any pledge or engagement on the part of his sister, and the same could be done on the part of Lord W----. Indeed, if she were disposed to make difficulties, her family would urge her to it. The Duke is quite satisfied that she would now most willingly do what she has repeatedly offered--namely, to decide the question by a reference to friends; and to show how far he has before effected this object, he put into my hands the enclosed, which was the terms agreed to in 1819 by both parties, and which the Duke is convinced, if they had been acted upon, Lord W---- would now have been in his wife"s bed. Of course, that part which relates to their residence in the same house is now gone by, and it must be separation; but the great object is, if possible, to separate, by a distinct arrangement, the dispute with W----. This is the part that affects Lord W---- the most; and it is in order to lessen the heavy censure that would fall on him by the exposure of _all his conduct_ towards Mr. W----, that he now seeks to ... to mingle the Duke in the history. Lady W---- cannot proceed in this cause if W---- is satisfied, for she cannot plead or maintain his case for him.
Nothing of importance occurred in Court on Sat.u.r.day. The Lord Chancellor has got rid of it, and turned it over to Judge Dallas, who requires more time; so there is now time for friends to interfere, if it can be done with effect.
You will understand the possession of the child. The Duke has nothing to do with it. Lord W---- has her now with him. A _habeas corpus_ has been moved, and the law must, of course, decide this.
You will be so good as to return the Duke"s letter, as he desired me to let him have it again. He really seems much obliged to you for the interest you have taken about it, and I think is much more at ease on the subject than he appeared to be on Friday. He knows for _certain_ that Lord N---- did advise Lord W---- on the question of Mr. W----.
Believe me, ever most truly yours,
W. H. FREMANTLE.
The Catholic Belief Bill continued to be warmly discussed in Parliament, and for a time almost excluded all other subjects of interest from public attention.
MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
House of Commons, Four o"clock.
I saw the Duke yesterday, who is truly thankful to you for the interest and concern you take in the business. He is fully sensible of the advantage on every ground to arbitrate in this matter, though he treats with indignation the attempt to fix a guilt on him. He states, in the most solemn manner, to me--and really in such a manner as I cannot for a moment disbelieve--that he is utterly innocent of the imputed charge; that it is a diabolical and infamous conspiracy, which any man may be liable to; and that if it proceeds, it will be necessary to expose and punish; that it is utterly impossible, without fraud and falsehood of the grossest kind, to bring home to him such a crime. Saying all this, he, however, admits with you the effect of such a charge on his character, until it is fully confuted and exposed.
With regard to the first proposition coming from Lady W----, it would be impossible for him or any one to recommend her in the first instance to stay proceedings, or to recommend Mr. W---- to do so: it would be admitting her guilt, which no one could advise her to do. The Duke is satisfied that she is ready to leave the whole matter to reference, and I have no doubt I shall have a communication from Lord C---- to that effect to-morrow; and if a reference is made on the whole subject--namely, the separation, and the income to be allowed--such reference and arrangement would naturally have the ultimate effect of putting an end to all other proceedings. But it is impossible for her, in the first instance, to make this a preliminary engagement, or for him to recommend such a step; it would be admitting a ground for the charge, which he knows to be most foul and false as it concerns him; and it would be a confession on her part of her guilt. It strikes me in the same point of view; and on this ground, also, the Duke cannot be one of the referees. You would be the best person, and the one most desirable to all parties connected with her, on the part of Lord W----; and she would be to name one equally approved by you and Lord W----. As soon as I have seen Lord C----, who comes to town to-day, I will let you know his decision and authority.
Ever most truly yours,
W. H. FREMANTLE.
We are in the greatest anxiety about the division to-night. The best calculators say we shall gain it by four: this is too close.