3792. But if a man has an account in both shops, might there not be some difficulty in restricting his advance?-In that case we close the account at Scalloway, and give the man what he requires here; and then we can restrict his advances if we see it to be necessary.
3793. Have you often found it necessary, after bad fishing seasons, to make considerable advances to men in the way of provisions?- Yes, we have found that necessary, because the men could get supplies from nowhere else, and we were obliged to give them meal and other things in order to keep their families alive.
3794. Are you speaking of Burra and Whalsay, or of all your fishing stations?-Most of the shops that we have in the country are obliged to give large advances in the case of bad seasons.
Three years ago the crops were very bad; the people had not seed to sow their land with; and we brought in a pretty large quant.i.ty of seed-corn and potatoes, which we supplied to the people in Yell.
3795. That was on the Gossaburgh estate, of which you are tacksmen?-Yes; and they have since then paid it up in full.
3796. Do you act in the same way with fishermen are not bound to fish for you?-If they were under any engagement-if they signed an obligation to deliver their fish to us-then we would do so.
3797. Whether they were on an estate under your management or not?-Yes.
3798. Have you sometimes made such engagements with them?- Occasionally we have.
3799. Was that with individual men?-Yes, with individual men when they wanted advances.
3800. That is to say, at the end of the fishing season, when you found on settling up that there was a balance against a man, and that he continued to want further supplies from your shop, you would enter into an engagement with him to fish to you next year?-Yes.
3801. Would that engagement be a verbal one?-Sometimes written and sometimes verbal.
3802. In that case the advances would be in the form of goods supplied at your shops?-Both money and goods. We would give him money if he asked for it.
3803. But the bulk of the advances would be in goods?-No.
Money would frequently be given when they wanted a special advance.
3804. In a case of that kind, are your shopkeepers instructed to make the advance to the men in either way?-If a man wants an advance of 1 or 2 we make it to him ourselves, and the people when they want goods, go to the shop for them.
3805. At what time are these advances generally made?-During the winter or the spring seasons, before the fishing begins again.
3806. And during the autumn, before the settlement for the years fishing has come round?-Yes. They frequently get money during the summer.
3807. I suppose the settlement with your men in Lerwick takes place in the office and not in the shop?-Yes, in the office.
3808. When the men get their payments in money, are they at liberty to go where they like to spend them?-Yes; they get the money in their hands, and go away from us with it.
3809. Whether they are Burra men or Whalsay men or strangers?-Yes. We settle with the Whalsay men at Whalsay; but all the money that we give at the settlements here, the men go away with it out of the office.
3810. Is the settlement with the Whalsay men made in the shop?- No; they are settled with at the manor-house at Simbister.
3811. Where is the settlement made at Gossaburgh?-The settlement with the Yell tenants is made at the house of West Sandwick.
3812. Have you shops in Yell?-None.
3813. The fishermen there, however, are bound to deliver their fish to you?-Some of the Yell fishermen deliver their fish in summer at Fetlar, and others again deliver them at Northmavine.
3814. What is the extent of the Gossaburgh estate?-I suppose the rental is about 400 or 500, and I think the number of tenants is about 120.
3815. Are the whole of these men bound to fish to you alone?- Not the men sailing out of the country. It is only the men remaining at home and fishing there during the summer who are bound to fish to us.
3816. Who is the proprietor of the Gossaburgh estate?-Mrs.
Henderson Robertson.
3817. In speaking of the rental, you refer to the rent paid by Messrs. Hay & Co. as lessees, which is about 500 a year?-Yes; I think it is between 400 and 500.
3818. What will the average rental of the holdings be?-Perhaps from 30s. to 5 or 6. There is one party who pays 65 or 70, but he is not a fisherman.
3819. What is the gross rental paid to you from the estate?-It will be seen from the valuation roll. I could not tell the gross rental off-hand, because it is a peculiar tack. We pay a certain fixed sum for it, and then we pay all the burdens on the estate, and it varies somewhat. It is more in one year than in another.
3820. Are the tacks under which you hold Burra and Gossaburgh in writing?-Yes, they are both written tacks.
3821. Do these tacks contain any reference to your [Page 92]
rights with regard to fishing?-The tacks state that we are at liberty to let the lands, remove the tenants, and take new tenants, and that we are to pay certain sums for the ground. I don"t remember whether there is anything specially mentioned about the fishings. I think in the Burra tack there is something about them it gives us right to all the fishings in the island. I am not sure that the original proprietor had not a Crown charter which gave him a right to the whole fishings, including oyster fishings and others; and I think we have the whole of these rights.
3822. Perhaps you will show me these two tacks, so that I may make an excerpt of any clause relating to the fishings?-I will do so. There is no clause in either lease relating to the obligation of the tenants to deliver their fish to the tacksmen.
3823. You say in your statement "We have other curing stations at different parts of the islands, and employ a number of men and boys from all quarters during the summer months:" that refers to the home fishing?-To the home fishing solely.
3824. There are curing stations at places quite separate from any of the four properties you have been speaking of?-Yes.
3825. Where are they?-We have a curing station at Dunrossness; we have another station at Fetlar; and we cure to some extent at Scalloway, and also at Lerwick.
3826. At all of these stations have you shops from which you supply the men?-We have a shop at Scalloway, and another here.
We have a factor at Fetlar, who supplies the fishermen with what they require; and we have a man at Dunrossness, who keeps supplies there also.
3827. At Dunrossness have you ever come into conflict with Mr.
Bruce"s people with regard to the sale of goods or the purchase of fish?-I think not.
3828. Is it understood there that you are to purchase from people who are not upon his lands?-We purchase from people who are not upon his lands, that is, from the Simbister or any other tenants, who are quite free.
3829. But not from the Sumburgh tenants?-They never offer us any of their fish, and we never ask them. We never interfere with Mr. Bruce"s fishings.
3830. Do you ever purchase from the Quendale tenants?-No, I think not.
3831. You say fishings of all kinds succeed best when the men are paid by shares. When they are secured in monthly wages, there is no inducement for exertion. That is with reference to the Faroe fishing?-Yes.
3832. Do you form that opinion from your experience of both systems?-Yes, because on some occasions we have had to pay wages to the men; but that has been very seldom.
3833. I think in another part of your statement you say that, when an agreement to pay monthly wages has been made, the men sometimes, if the price has been high, have repudiated their bargain, and asked to be paid according to the current price at the end of the season?-Yes.
3834. Has that happened often?-No; very seldom. The men generally prefer to go on shares. There have been one or two occasions when we had to guarantee them monthly wages in order to induce them to go out to the fishing, but at the same time, if their share of the fish exceeded that monthly wage, they got it.
3835. Is it your opinion that it would be a wholesome change if the men were paid by wages, or that it is better for both parties that things should remain as they are?-I don"t think it would be a good change to pay them by wages.
3836. Would it not tend to form more provident and careful habits among the fishermen if they knew exactly how much they were to receive?-I think it would be very much against the fishings if such a system were adopted. The men would not get nearly so many fish, and they would not earn so much money, if they were paid by wages, as they do at present. Some of the men who are fishing at the haaf earn as much 15 or 20 as during the summer, and they would not get any one to pay them wages of that amount.
3837. How much would that be per month?-Perhaps about 5 per month. No one would engage them at that figure.
3838. In the home fishing the boats generally belong to the men?-I think, for the most part, they do.