7837. You are a shopman and bookkeeper in Mr. Anderson"s establishment at Hillswick?-I am.
7838. You are in the course of making up, at my request, a return from ledger D and ledger V, which are books containing the ledger accounts of the individual fishermen employed at Hillswick?- Yes.
7839. Do both these books contain the accounts of the individual men?-Yes. Ledger D contains the accounts both of the crews and private accounts of the men; and ledger V contains some private accounts.
7840. In proceeding to make up the list, you are taking the names of the last fifty fishermen as they appear in the ledger, and you are inserting in the return the various particulars which have been furnished to you?-Yes.
7841. The return which you are preparing, and which you are to send me, will be correctly taken from Mr. Anderson"s books?- Yes, so far as I am able to do it.
7842. Is there any other person here who wishes to be examined?
(No answer.) Then I adjourn the sittings at this place until further notice.
Brae: Sat.u.r.day, January 13, 1872.
-Mr. Guthrie
MAGNUS JOHNSTON, examined.
7843. You keep a shop at Tofts, about a mile from Mossbank?- Yes; I think it is rather more than a mile from Mossbank.
7844. What do you deal in?-Tea, tobacco, sugar and I buy fish too.
7845. Do you cure them yourself?-Yes.
7846. How many boats have you fishing for you?-I have no boats of my own; I just buy a little fish in the winter time, and I cure the men"s fish in Feideland in summer. I cure at the fishing-station for Andrew Tulloch, who was examined the other day.
7847. From what fishermen do you buy your fish?-I buy them from any man who comes along, and wants to sell fish to me.
7848. Is that in the winter time only, or in the summer as well?- In the winter only. I am a seaman myself, and I have followed the sea since I was a child, but I stayed at home this year; and in the summer season I cured Tulloch"s fish, while the wife and the bairns and I have commenced to sell a little tea and sugar and tobacco, and to buy fish from the small fishing boats in winter.
7849. Is that the way which people hereabout usually take to start a shop business?-I think it is.
7850. Do you keep accounts with the men that you buy the fish from?-No.
7851. Do you pay for them in cash?-Yes; always in cash.
7852. And then they buy some provisions from you?-Yes; if they like.
7853. Are these paid for in cash too?-Yes.
7854. I suppose you find it very uphill work competing with the big shops?-I don"t know. I am a kind of rough and ready sailor man, and I don"t take much thought about that; it does not give me much concern.
7855. Do the men prefer to deal with the big shops in it general way?-I cannot say as to that.
7856. Do you drive a good business with any of the men besides those who sell their fish to you?-No; some of the neighbours may buy a few provisions from us, but not many. A woman may sell her eggs to us, and get provisions for them.
7857. Where do you get your tea?-From Bremner & Grant, Aberdeen.
7858. Do they send their traveller round the country soliciting orders?-Sometimes. He has not been round this winter, and I get my tea when I write for it.
7859. Do you keep pa.s.s-books for the business which you do with your customers?-Sometimes, but not many. I think my girl keeps a pa.s.s-book sometimes, but I am no scribe myself, and I cannot keep books.
7860. You never were a fisherman?-Not in the home fishing, but I have been at the Faroe fishing as master.
7861. When was that?-About four or five years ago.
7862. Whose vessel were you in?-The late Mr. Hoseason"s. I have not been at Faroe since then.
7863. You went from Mossbank then?-Yes; I was one year in a schooner for Mr. Adie too.
7864. Had you the same arrangement then about the fish which exists now, that the men get one-half of the fish, for which they are paid the current price at the end of the season?-Yes.
7865. Did you at that time live where you are now?-Yes; and when I went to the Faroe fishing. Some time after I got married I lived in Northmaven, but now for nine years past at Martinmas I have lived at Tofts.
7866. When you went to the Faroe fishing, did you get your supplies from Pole, Hoseason, & Company, when you were employed by them?-No; I generally took my supplies in tea and sugar and other things from Braidwood & Fowler, Sandport Street, Leith. We are friendly yet, and they always send me some present at Christmas.
7867. Then you are rather better off than most of the men?-Yes; in some ways I am.
7868. At least you had sense to get your provisions where you pleased?-Yes; and I had something left by my friends, besides what I earned myself. When I was at the Faroe fishing, I did not think they got fair-play.
7869. Who did not get fair-play?-Not even myself, or any of the men. I knew the fish had been selling at a higher rate than the men got the benefit of; at least I was told so.
7870. Do you think the men were not to blame for that, by making a bargain which left them entirely at the discretion of the merchant? The merchant could fix any price he liked, could he not?-He could. But if I get the loan of a man"s boat with which to go to the fishing, and if I engage for one-half of the fish, then, I think, it would only be fair-play to divide the fish in halves, and for the merchant to take one-half, and give me the other.
7871. But you said the men sometimes felt that the price which they got for their fish at the end of the season was lower than it ought to have been, and I was asking you whether you did not think the men had themselves to blame for that. They did not reserve any power to themselves about fixing the price, but left it entirely to the merchants?-Yes.
7872. Then your idea is, that they would have been wiser to have kept some power about that in their own hands?-Yes.
7873. How could they manage that?-They engaged for one-half at the Faroe fishing, and the owners of the vessels ought to have sold the fish conscientiously, and to have given the men the benefit of their half, after taking off curing and other expenses.
7874. But you say the men thought the owners did not always fix the price conscientiously?-I thought so myself.
7875. How would you manage it so that the men could make sure of getting a fair price at the end of the season?-I would let the men stand the chance of the markets so far as the fixing of the price is concerned.
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7876. But is not that the bargain that is made now, that they get the market price at the end of the season?-I believe it is, but it was not so then.
7877. What was the difference in the arrangement then?-I cannot say. They engaged for one-half of the fish at that time, but I know that sometimes they did not get the benefit of the market price.
7878. Do you think they get the benefit of the market price now?-I cannot say, for I have not been at Faroe for five years.
7879. At that time did most of the men who were sailing with you run accounts with the merchant for their outfit and supplies?- Yes.
7880. Had they generally a balance to get in cash settling time?- Yes.