9928. But where the fish-merchant is not the tacksman, is it the practice that he generally settles with the landlord for the rent?-I think so, or he becomes accountable to the landlord for the amount of the rent.
9929. Do you know whether the rent has been paid by means of lines handed to the fishermen or tenants, or whether the merchant just hands a cheque to the landlord for the amount of rent due by all the fishermen?-I am not prepared to answer that.
9930. Has it been it universal practice in Unst, or anything like a universal practice, for fishermen to deal at the shops kept by the landlord or merchant for whom they fished?-That has generally been the practice.
9931. Is there any understanding that they shall go to that shop for their supplies?-There is such an understanding, but they are not compelled to do so. Of course if a man is in debt, and has no means with which to go to another shop, he is very thankful to get his supplies from the merchant, and he has to get them on credit.
9932. And when he gets them on credit, the merchant is safe to get paid by the fish if the men deliver their fish to him?-He gives them credit, and he must take his chance of being paid when the fish are delivered.
9933. I suppose a fisherman here does not wish very often to change his residence and his place of fishing?-Not very often.
9934. But if he did happen to do so would not the fact of him having an account with the merchant in the place prevent him from shifting his quarters?-I don"t know that it would.
9935. He might have an account standing against him here, and would he not be bound to pay it?-Yes. He ought to pay it before he shifted to another employer.
9936. And the merchant might raise an action against him if he were to remove?-Yes, and if he could not pay his debt.
9937. Is that it thing of frequent occurrence?-No.
9938. Do you think that men are prevented from shifting to other places, by the fact that they are in debt?-I don"t know that they are. I have not known any case of that within my own experience.
9939. Have you known cases where a man wanted to engage with another merchant in the island, or in the neighbouring islands, and who was unable to do so in consequence of being in debt to his former employer?-No such case has come under my notice.
9940. Do you know whether it is usual, when a man does engage with a new employer in that way, that the new employer takes over and becomes responsible for any debt that has been standing in the former employer"s books?-They very often do that, but I don"t know if it is a general rule.
9941. Have you known cases of that sort occurring?-Yes.
9942. Pretty often?-Not very often, but I have known of some.
9943. Is that done at the request of the fishermen, or is it an arrangement between the merchants?-I should think it was arranged partly with the fishermen and partly with the merchants.
9944. You think the fisherman has no objection to it?-No.
9945. Do you think the condition and the character of the fishermen in this district would be improved if cash payments were the rule instead of these long settlements?-I could not say. I have no doubt some would manage their affairs better if there were cash payments, but some would manage them worse. There are differences in the character of the men here, as everywhere else.
9946. Do you not think that relying on the merchant for supplies if a bad season comes, makes these fishermen a little more careless in running up accounts?-In [som]e cases it does.
9947. They feel that the merchant is anxious to employ them, and that if a bad season comes, and their debt is not beyond all bounds, they are safe to get supplies for the season?-Yes; perhaps some of them look too much to that.
9948. Is it a common complaint that the fishermen do not know the price they are to get for their fish until the end of the season?- Yes, they do not generally make any arrangement for the price before then.
9949. Do you think that is a reasonable complaint?-I don"t know.
I think that if the thing is conducted on just principles it is a good thing for both parties, because the fishermen have the same chance of being, benefited by a rising market as the merchant; but it been a general thing to make no arrangement as to price until the fish are sold.
9950. Have you known any cases in which the price has been fixed at the beginning of the season?-I cannot say that I have known any particular case of that kind.
9951. Do you think the fishermen would agree to an arrangement fixing the price at the beginning of the season?-I think some of them would; but perhaps some of them would rather allow it to continue in the old way.
9952. Do you think they would not like to fish for so much weekly wages, and so much additional at the end of the season according to the market price?-I don"t think they would. I think they would be better satisfied to be paid in proportion to the amount of fish they catch.
9953. Would it be possible to pay them in proportion to the amount of fish they catch, and also to pay them at shorter times?- It would be possible enough to do it, if they came to an agreement as to the price per cwt. for green fish. If that were done, it would be at the option of the fish-curers and the fishermen to make an arrangement for paying at shorter periods.
9954. If they got their money in hand in that way, do you not think that would lead them to be more independent than they are at present?-It ought to do.
9955. Don"t you think the settlement with the fishermen is delayed too long after the fishing season is over?-I have no doubt it is delayed long enough; but perhaps sometimes it is a long time before the merchants get paid for their fish, and that may prevent them from making the settlement earlier.
9956. Do you mean that the settlement is delayed until the merchant realizes the price of his fish?-I understand that is very often the case.
9957. So that, in that view, the merchant is really to some extent trading on the fishermen"s capital?-Yes, while it is in his possession; but very often he has not a long time of it, because I understand he generally sells his fish on credit, and it is some time before he is paid.
9958. But a man who sells upon credit in that way requires some capital to enable him to carry on his business?-Yes.
9959. And in this case it is really the fishermen"s capital that is being traded upon; that is to say, the fisherman has not received payment for his fish, and that money which he ought to have received for his fish is in the hands of the merchant?-But very often a fisherman has taken up the amount of his fishing before the settlement.
9960. He may have done so in goods?-Yes.
9961. Is that the case with most of them?-It is the case with a good many, and some of them perhaps have overdrawn their account.
9962. Then in that case the merchant is really advancing the price of the fish in goods beforehand?-Yes.
9963. Would it not be as easy for the merchant, and better for the fishermen to make the same advance to them in the course of the season in cash?-I suppose so.
9964. Only the merchant has a profit on the goods under the present system?-Of course he has.
9965. And in that case the merchant gets his upon the goods, but the fisherman gets no interest on [Page 241] the money which he lies out of until settlement?-Of course not.
9966. Therefore the merchant has the benefit both of the interest on the fishermen"s capital in his hand, and, in addition to that, the profit upon the goods furnished to the fishermen?-Yes.
9967. And besides that, he is safe not to lose upon the transactions of the year, not having the price fixed until his sales are realized?-Yes. The only chance by which a merchant sometimes loses is, that he advances a man further than the man"s earnings can meet.
9968. But he can do that or not, as he pleases?-Of course; but there are sometimes cases where the fisherman requires a certain amount of supplies. He cannot do without them, and if the fishing is short then he is not able to meet them.
9969. Does it not strike you as being rather a one-sided transaction, the fisherman gets no interest on his capital, which is in the merchant"s hands in the shape of the price of his fish?-It is not very long there.
9970. It is there for four or five months, and in the meantime the merchant is making a profit on the goods?-If the merchant could turn over the fish when he gets them he might be able to pay the men at once, but there is generally a long time between the time when the fisherman delivers his fish and when they are brought to market and the money paid. The fish take a long time to cure, and the summer is often done before much of the fish can be sent to market. Then the merchant generally sells at two or three months"
credit to the buyer, and it is that time before he can realize his money.
9971. Do you know whether the merchants in Unst are in the habit of dealing much in stock?-I don"t know; there is generally a sale once a year for the cattle, and any one who wishes to go to the sale is at liberty to go. If any one wishes to dispose of his stock privately to any one else, he is quite at liberty to do so.
9972. Who are the largest purchasers at the sales?-I cannot say, for I have not been always there.
9973. Who conducts them?-An auctioneer from Lerwick, Mr.
Henry.
9974. Do you think a ready-money system would be any improvement as regards the fishermen?-I think it would.
In fact a ready-money system in anything would be an improvement over barter: at least it ought to be, but whether it would or not I cannot say.
9975. Do you think that, in point of fact, the present system is one of barter?-Yes.