10,565. But could not the fish-merchant make his arrangements so as to derive a sufficient profit from the sale of his fish without depending upon the profit that is derived from the sale of his goods?-It would be perfectly possible to make an arrangement of that kind; but the case of Shetland requires special arrangements in consequence of its peculiar position. If the fish could be sent off fresh to the market whenever the men came on sh.o.r.e with them, and we had no more outlays upon them, then there might be a profit; but, as things are now, we must lay in heavy stocks for the incoming year.
10,566. Heavy stocks of what?-Of fishing materials and salt.
Spence & Co. must now order perhaps 150 tons of salt; and if we did not make arrangements with the men, that would become a loss.
10,567. But you could make arrangements with the men as early as you please, although the men were not dealing with your shop?- We expect the preference, because I hold, and can prove in various ways, that the arrangement made with Mr. Walker was with a good intention. I think co-operation in the Shetland Islands is far more beneficial than compet.i.tion. Compet.i.tion between two poor merchants does not do any good, but an immense deal of injury; and I think that, before it cash system is entered into, a full and thorough investigation should be made by the proprietors and the princ.i.p.al dealers, in order to see how it can be made to work best for the general good. The change can be made without injury to any one, but it must be done a certain way, and that can only be found out by such a special investigation as I have referred to.
Shetland is far behind, and I think the adoption of a cash system would be the means of increasing the number of dealers who would draw away the people"s means and be a bar against developing the resources of the country in a proper way. Some of these dealers would be rubbed; the people would be poorer; and no dealer even with capital would be inclined to go into the field in such circ.u.mstances. If they did, it would need to be under some sort of protective system; or if a dealer with capital came forward he would have every chance of obtaining a monopoly, and he might do great mischief.
10,568. Is there not a monopoly at present?-No, we don"t want it.
We only ask the fishermen to give us the preference, and any man who has cash to get can get it at any time he likes.
10,569. I don"t doubt that; but is there any compet.i.tion in the shop trade in Unst just now?-There is no monopoly.
10,570. Is there not a monopoly on Major Cameron"s estate at least?-It is not a monopoly. I say that what we aimed at was rather co-operation; and if we got a fair chance there was a prospect of the fishermen, if they had money, partic.i.p.ating along with us.
10,571. Is there any further statement you wish to make?-I should like the men, if possible, to find boats for themselves.
It is not our fault that they don"t own them.
10,572. Do you encourage them to buy their boats?-Yes.
10,573. Have you not succeeded in that?-Since we have formed the company, we have had a great deal to contend with, and I have been in ill health, and so many enemies have been created against us, that with bad years we have found it difficult to go on; but I hold, and can prove in various ways, that the arrangement we made was for the good of the tenants.
10,574. But in what way has the opposition excited against you prevented the men from buying their boats?-Any change in Shetland, whether for good or ill, is sure to create opposition.
10,575. Has the opposition you have met with been among the fishermen?-No. If they are taken in hand properly, and made to understand matters, I have always found them quite reasonable, but they have been badly influenced.
10,576. Has that influence been exercised by rival merchants?-It has arisen perhaps from want of knowledge, and from parties not knowing how such business should be carried on. It would be our aim to allow the men to receive cash for what they earn, but there are many difficulties which can only be rectified by proprietors and us and the tenants together.
10,577. Do you mean that the proprietor should place the fishermen altogether into your hands?-If the motive is good, I think that should be the case. At least we should prefer to have the tenants to transact with us.
10,578. But would it not be far better that the tenants should stand on their own legs, and not be so entirely dependent on the large companies?-It would be better; but that should be gone into with great caution.
10,579. Don"t you think the fishermen are less independent now, when there is only one large firm in Unst to whom they can deliver their fish, than they were when there were three competing merchants?-They may be in the meantime, but that always tends to harm.
10,580. What tends to harm?-Too much compet.i.tion, because the country is too poor for it. It would be far better for the proprietors to take the men into their own hands to fish than to allow them to go to number of small dealers.*
*Mr. Spence afterwards wrote the following letter to the Commissioner:- "Lest it may have been thought that in giving my evidence before you I had approved of a monopoly, I now beg to send a written explanation of what I meant, as I afterwards said to you I would "There is nothing in a dealing way I so much dislike as a monopoly. What I wished to be understood was, that no number of small dealers, however willing, working as they do, can improve Shetland as it would really need; but that in order to develop the resources of the country thoroughly, it must be done by quite different means. There is no doubt but that a change is needed, but it should be merged into with caution, or it will do harm to some cla.s.s. Shetland appears to be so far behind, that the people must serve an apprenticeship, as it were, to any change for their good. It occurred to me that some good might be done by all the dealers in Unst amalgamating, and by their united capitals and efforts carrying on business and the fishings on at sort of co-operative system; but it did not seem to be in accordance with a free-trade system, and was never tried, though, if properly conducted, I have no doubt it could have done some good.
"In reference to the cash system, you would see in the letter I read, and left with you, the views I have held. We have hitherto, for various reasons found some difficulty in adopting it fully, but we trust, ere long, to get it fairly introduced. One hindrance to us getting it fairly wrought, is owing to the way we are bound to the proprietors for the fishermen"s rents. This also appears to those who do not know the nature of the business, to be a monopoly; because while we are thus bound we are compelled to a certain extent, to restrict such men who, from extravagant habits or other causes, cannot preserve their rents. It cannot be supposed that to such [Page 258] men we can hand over money-perhaps to be made a bad use of; and then, when rent time comes, have nothing to get from them, and often not having got any rent for boats and fishing materials. This is one thing in which there is great room for improvement in Shetland.
"As a member of a firm having the princ.i.p.al business in this land, I would beg to state that our mode of dealing seems to be greatly misunderstood by many; and it would be most desirable that an impartial investigation into the books and transactions of every other dealer in the island should be made, when, I have no doubt, matters would look something different. With regard to the fishermen, they are not bound to fish, and they were never told so.
I, for one, have urged upon them to improve their farms, so as to enable them to be independent of fishing, which I consider to be a most dangerous employment in such small boats. We pay them cash whenever they want it and have it to get. We do not monopolize our dealings. Could a proper investigation be made in other shops, I can venture to say that, on the whole, we sell cheaper than any other. Besides the other dealers in the island, the steamer runs twice a week in summer, and once in winter, from Lerwick to here; and if the people wish to avail themselves of it, they can get their supplies as easily from there as here. A public roup, advertised all over Shetland, is held once every year for the sale of cattle and ponies, where there is perfect freedom to buy and sell. There are many things we do for the people which are not generally known. I shall only mention one thing, to show what we have to combat with. 1868 and 1869 the fishings were small, and the crops so blighted, that seed and meal had to be imported, and given out on credit to a great many, or else they would have starved. The effects of these two years tell against both the men and us for some time, but such occur occasionally; and it is dealers, standing as we do, that feel it most. We hold, as you are aware, a lease of a large portion of this island, and we are bound to see certain improvements carried out, which, being new here, raises a hostile spirit against us by those who are not inclined to see our island made better. We try to introduce any other improvements that can be thought of, feeling a.s.sured that if we can get them accomplished, the people will be in much better circ.u.mstances than they are. While we are pressing these improvements, small dealers draw away the means of the people, preventing both them and us from getting so fast on as we would otherwise do; and while we are using all reasonable means to try to get the indolent not to sell what, of their own farm produce, they really need themselves, as is sometimes done, the report is often got up that we want to monopolize the business of the island, when there is nothing of the kind ever thought of by us."
Baltasound, Unst, January 19, 1872, PETER NICHOLSON, examined.
10,581. You are a fisherman and tenant farmer at Haroldswick?-I am.
10,582. You hold land under Mr. Edmonstone of Buness?-Yes.
10,583. And you fish for Spence & Co?-I fished for Mr. Spence, but not for Spence & Co. I have not fished any for three years.
10,584. Do you devote yourself entirely to your farm now?-Yes.
10,585. Why did you give up the fishing?-Because I did not like the sea.
10,586. Were you quite content to fish for Spence & Co. if you had continued at the fishing?-I would have been.
10,587. Where do you get your supplies now?-From Spence & Co. and other places, just where I can make the best bargain.
10,588. Do you work at anything besides your own farm?-Yes, I do day"s work back and forward.
10,589. Do you get your day"s pay at the time?-Yes; if I ask it, I get it.
10,590. But you do not always ask it?-Sometimes I do not; sometimes it will be two or three days, or a week, or a month, before I get it.
10,591. Who do you work for mostly?-For Mr. Spence.
10,592. Do you keep an account at his shop?-Not much. If I want anything I pay the money for it.
10,593. But you have an account sometimes?-No, I never keep one.
10,594. Is there not an account in your name in his books?-Not very much. I never keep a note of that myself.
10,595. But there is something in his books against you?-Yes.
10,596. And sometimes your day"s pay is entered in that book too?-No. I get money for my day"s wages when I have asked for it, or if I am working for some time it is entered in the book until I get it, but all the money I have to get is given to me when I ask for it.
10,597. Then you just keep an account the same as fisherman does?-Much the same.
10,598. Only what is put down in your case is a day"s pay or a month"s pay for work, instead of the price of fish?-Yes.
10,599. Have you been going on in that way for three years?-Yes.
10,600. Do you settle every year?-Yes, once a year, in January or February. I have not settled for last year yet.
10,601. Was there a balance against you at last settlement?-Yes, about 10s. or 12s.
10,602. Therefore you had no money to get?-I had money to get.
It is now that I have about 10s. or 12s. against me; but if I wanted goods, and paid the money, I always got them.
10,603. Do you get some money now and then?-Yes, I always get it when I ask it.
10,604. But you don"t like to ask for much when you have an account running against you?-No. I just get as much as keeps me.
10,605. Where do you sell the stock off your farm?-I sell them to any man who gives me most for them, but it is few or none that I sell on this island. There are parties who come into the island to buy them, and usually sell to them.
10,606. Why don"t you get your day"s work paid to you at the time?-I would get it if I asked it.
10,607. Why don"t you ask it?-Perhaps because I am not needing it at the time.
10,608. Where do you get your supplies from besides Spence & Co."s?-At Mr. Johnston"s.