11,214. So that your books do not show, without calculation, what amount of cash was transferred before the shipping master?-They show the account exactly as it is, irrespective of the settlement before the shipping master.
11,215. In that way, is it not the case that the transference of the cash before the shipping master is merely form in order to comply with the Act?-I don"t think so; because, if a man chooses to keep the money, he may do so. The account is kept merely to show the man"s earnings, and how these earnings have been disposed of. It would be more simple, perhaps, to debit the men with the goods they get, and then to credit the cash after the settlement; but the form we use has always been adopted, and we still adhere to it. I don"t think it is an evasion of the Act at all.
11,216. The men are not all settled with on the same day?-No.
11,217. Perhaps you may settle with half a dozen at time?-Yes.
I remember of settling with nineteen on one day last year, but I think that is the largest number; but we could have settled with more if they had come forward.
11,218. Of course, if the men were all settled with as they land from the ships, perhaps to the number of 40 at a time, it would be more easy for them to go away without paying their debts?-Of course it would, but it is no great trouble to them to come and pay their debts.
11,219. But there would be great difficulty for you or your clerk in looking after them on the way down from the Shipping Office to the shop?-I don"t think so. It is the work of a moment to take their money from them, because we can see at a glance what is due.
11,220. How far is Mr. Leask"s office from the Shipping Office?- It may be about a couple of hundred yards, but I could not say exactly. Mr. Leask"s office is in the town, and the Custom House is in Fort Charlotte which is to the north of the town.
11,221. You say you settled with nineteen men in one day: did these men all go up at one time before the superintendent?-All that were there at the time went before the superintendent.
11,222. But the ordinary number with whom you settle on the same day will be much less?-Yes; sometimes there may be eight or ten, and sometimes only one.
11,223. So that if they really require looking after, there will not be much difficulty in looking after them from the Custom House to the office?-We never require to look after them at all; they come of themselves.
11,224. But suppose the case that they did require it; it would not be very difficult to look after them, when there are only one or two, or even eight or ten?-We should not take the trouble to do that. If they chose to swindle us, we should just apply to the Small Debt Court. We would not be inclined to act the part of sheriff-officer ourselves. Mr. Hamilton says in his Report, "Almost every fisherman in the islands is in debt to some shopkeeper, and not only is the head of the family in debt, but frequently his wife also, and other members of his family, down to children of 12 or 14 years of age, for whom the shopkeeper opens separate accounts in his books"-I don"t think that is the case. Some of them may perhaps have accounts, but I don"t think every is indebted to some shopkeeper.
11,225. Still that is a common thing?-Quite a common thing.
11,226. Does it occur in your books as well as in those of other firms, that separate accounts are opened for the wife and for the children?-Never for the wife; but, of course, an account is opened for the children when we are employing them.
11,227. Have you any transactions in hosiery?-We have transactions in barter for what Mr. Walker calls the hosiery improper or incidental. We do a great deal in that way in the coa.r.s.er sort of work stockings, frocks, and so on. We barter goods for them, or rather I should say we take them instead of money.
11,228. You don"t keep, accounts with regard to these transactions?-No.
11,229. Every transaction is separate and distinct?-Yes, it is simple barter. The people come with their goods instead of money, and we give them, goods in exchange for them.
11,230. A married woman may come with her knitting and sell it in that way for goods?-Yes.
11,231. But you don"t keep an account with her?-No; we don"t keep separate accounts with a man and his wife.
11,232. If she gives the hosiery in that way, and does not want any goods, may it be put down to the husband"s account?-We don"t care about taking hosiery at all. We simply take the hosiery instead of money, because the people come wanting to buy goods, and very often they have nothing to give for them except their hosiery. We frequently take the hosiery from them at a great disadvantage.
11,233. Do you frequently open accounts with the children of a family when they are in your employment?-I should not call them children, but grown-up young people-boys of from 12 years of age and upwards, who are employed in the fish-curing.
11,234. Do you employ many boys in your establishment at Lerwick?-Yes. I now produce a list of all the people employed by Mr. Leask in that way. There are about 60 of them altogether, including persons of 12 to upwards of 50.
11,235. For how many months in the year are these persons employed?-I should say that on an average taking one thing with another, curing the fish and turning them over, they are employed for about five months in the year, from May to December; but they are only employed at intervals, not regularly.
They are employed regularly for part of May and for June, July, August, and September, and sometimes part of October. After that we have to employ them occasionally in turning the fish.
11,236. When you employ one of these persons at the beginning of the year, is it the ordinary practice to open an account in his name in the ledger?-We don"t care about opening accounts with them at all. We prefer to settle with them every Sat.u.r.day.
11,237. What is the nature of the engagement with them? Is it for weekly wages, or for a fee?-It is for weekly wages. We pay them from 7d. a day upwards; 1s. a day is the regular wage for a woman working among the fish, or for a strong boy.
11,238. In your establishment in Lerwick, is any payment made by way of beach fees?-No; we pay all by daily or weekly wages, and Sat.u.r.day evening is the pay.
11,239. Do all these parties take payment in cash every Sat.u.r.day?-We prefer to pay them in cash; but, of course, if they have taken supplies or provisions during the week we must be paid for them. Some of them do take supplies, because they could not live without them.
11,240. When they take supplies in that way, are their names entered each week in the day-book?-Not in the day-book, but in a book which we keep for the purpose, what we call our work-book.
11,241. In what way is it kept?-We simply charge them with what provisions they get.
11,242. Is there a ledger account in that work-book for each person?-Yes.
11,243. In it the provisions which they get are entered, and I suppose also soft goods if they get any?-They very seldom take soft goods; it is only provisions. These are entered in the book as they are got, and the account is settled on the Sat.u.r.day evening, except in one or two extravagant cases where the people are in debt. In that case, we simply put their work to their credit, and don"t balance at all until the end of the season.
[Page 276]
11,244. If you don"t make a balance until the end of the season, may you not have some difficulty in restricting their supplies within proper limits?-Of course, we can always tell how they stand, because we are keeping a check upon their accounts, but sometimes we find it pretty hard to keep such people in check.
We far rather prefer paying cash on the Sat.u.r.day evening than having accounts.
11,245. But you don"t always do that?-No, we cannot do it because the people cannot live without supplies as a general rule; perhaps there may be some exceptions.
11,246. But in the majority of cases you say the people have accounts?-Yes.
11,247. In the list you have given in, there are the names of about eighty people: are these all the people employed in your curing establishments?-No; there are a good many employed incidentally besides these. The names I have given are only those of the people are employed most regularly.
11,248. How are these people paid who are employed incidentally?-We never employ any one to work for goods.
The understanding is that they are to be paid in money; and they are paid in money, unless they have supplied themselves with articles from the shop, for which, of course, we must be paid.
11,249. In what way are the engagements with these parties made?-When they ask for employment we tell them to go to the superintendent, and if he requires them he takes them and fixes their wages. He very likely tries them for a day, or perhaps for a week, to see how they are to get on, and then he tells them what their wages are to be.
11,250. In what way is the understanding expressed to them that they are to be paid in cash at the end of each week?-They know very well they will get their wages in cash, unless they take stuff from the shop before the end of the week. It is cash that is always the understanding. We don"t wish them to take goods at all, and we prefer that they should not take any.
11,251. Do they ever get cash in the course of the week?-Very often.
11,252. To what extent?-Of course their wages are not a great deal, and it cannot be to a great extent. They sometimes get 1s.
perhaps during the week; sometimes more and sometimes less.
11,253. But they always get goods when they want them so long as they are in your employ?-Not always. In one or two cases we have had to refuse goods.
11,254. Is not that really a payment of their wages in goods if they choose to take them all in goods?-I don"t think so, because we don"t wish them to take all in goods.
11,255. But, in fact, you don"t pay them the money?-In such a case we don"t pay them the money.
11,256. If there is any money left to receive at the end of the week, how do you pay it?-If they choose to go to the shop and take goods, we must pay ourselves for these goods. They cannot expect to get both goods and money too; but what we pay is money, and if they choose to take goods, that is their own fault.
11,257. But in fact, they are not paid in money?-I think that, in fact, they are paid in money, because they may get the money from the office and take it back again to the shop, as they do in some cases.
11,258. Do they sometimes get the money at the office?-Yes, and sometimes they pay it back into the shop; but, of course we deduct the amount of the accounts from what they have to receive.
11,259. I suppose it is very seldom that they get the money in the office and pay it back to the shop?-That is done in a good many cases.
11,260. Why do they do that if they have an account?-Because if they have a balance to get it is paid to them in money, and very likely what money they get is spent by them in the shop.