5209. Is it not the case that fishermen sometimes buy the boat from the curer, and pay for it by instalments running over a certain number of years?-Not in Yell.
5210. You have had no experience of that system of dealing?-I cannot say that I have.
5211. Do you think it is of great importance to a fish-curer here to have fishermen bound to fish for him? Does it tend greatly to ensure his success in the fishing trade?-I don"t know very well how to answer that question. I had fishermen bound to me during the period of my lease-about sixty of them I suppose.
5212. Was that a lease which you held of an estate in Yell?-Yes; Major Cameron"s.
5213. Did you lease the whole of Major Cameron"s property in North and Mid Yell?-Yes.
5214. Were these men all bound to fish for you?-They were leased over to my brother, and I wrought out the business for him, but the men were never compelled in any way. About one-third of them were south-going men, and I should think about one-sixth of them fished to others.
5915. You did not enforce the obligation which you understood them to be under?-No; I never enforced it in any case but one.
5216. Had you always enough men to man your boats with?-We had men belonging to other proprietors, and other proprietors had men belonging to us, and none of us ever enforced that obligation except in one case, and that was merely in order that we might put out a boat to sea. There were five men engaged for the boat, and we could not get another free man, so we had to take one.
5217. Was that long since?-Yes; it was in 1855. But I know of men who have been offered this year and last year to get their money every Sat.u.r.day night, or every day when they landed fish, and they would not accept it. These were men who were thoroughly clear.
5218. Was it wages they were offered, or a price for the fish they delivered?-A price for the fish they delivered. Suppose they delivered 20 cwt. of fish to me, I would pay them for these fish.
5219. How was the price to be fixed in that case?-It would be fixed at once.
5220. Would it be fixed at the beginning of the year?-Yes.
5221. Is it long since you proposed that arrangement to any man?-It was at the settlement of 1870.
5222. Did you offer to pay certain men in that way at that time?-I did not do it, because I was not in the fishing at that time, but I was present when it was offered. It was the parties for whom I was curing fish at that time who offered the money.
5223. Was that Spence & Co.?-Yes.
5224. The offer was made to men in Yell?-Yes.
5225. And the men declined that offer?-Yes; they declined taking it. They said if they had as much money as would carry them through the year, they would rather not take any more, but that they could trust to the merchants.
5226. Was that offer made to many men?-To all their men in Yell. There were 30 boats, with six men in each boat, and that offer was made to the whole of them at Cullivoe. The same offer was repeated this year, and they still would not accept of it. They accept of not take their cash until the end of the year.
5227. Was that because they wanted to have something at the end of the year with which to pay their rent?-I suppose that would be one of their reasons; but they were afraid that if they got their cash every Sat.u.r.day, or every fortnight, or every month, they would spend it carelessly and thoughtlessly, whereas they did not have the money, they could not spend it.
5228. Are there any leases in Yell now?-Scarcely any.
5229. Have there been leases introduced lately?-No; but there have been some offered-on Major Cameron"s estate, and on Mr.
Irvine"s.
5230. Do these leases contain any conditions as to fishing?-No.
5231. Were the conditions such as would interfere with fishing, or do you know anything about that?-Mr. Irvine"s leases were not such as to interfere with the fishing in any way, and I think there were three persons who accepted them. With regard to the other leases, I do not say they were such as would interfere with the fishings. There was a certain amount of work required to be done on the farms during the year, but I think all that was required could have been done when there was no fishing being prosecuted. At that season, what I would call the fishing was not going on.
5232. But the tenants have not accepted that offer?-There are two on Major Cameron"s property who are under lease, I believe, or who understand they are under leases. I am not aware if the lease has ever been signed; I think not.
5233. The poor-rates in your parish, I understand are not so high as in some parts of Shetland?-I suppose not. They are 3s. for 1872-1s. 6d. on the proprietor and 1s. 6d. on the tenant.
5234. Can you say, from your experience as an inspector of poor, that pauperism is promoted in any degree by the system which prevails of settling only once a year?-No; I should not say it was increased in any way by that.
5235. Does not that system of long settlements induce people to be a little careless about their money, and improvident?-There are a certain cla.s.s who, if they had money, would spend it. That cla.s.s are pretty well looked after by the fish-curer; they are only allowed advances in such small proportions as enable them to get through the year, and to be as little in arrear as possible at the end. If these same parties had the money in their hands, I am certain it would not last them so long as it does in the fish-curer"s hands.
5236. That is to say, he will only allow them a certain amount of supplies from the shop?-Yes; so much a week or a fortnight.
5237. Or cash if they want it, but to a limited extent?-Yes; I should think that cash would be given to a free man.
5238. But not to a bound fisherman?-Not unless it was for a necessary purpose-to purchase something, for instance, which the merchant cannot supply.
5239. If a man is bound to fish to a proprietor or tacksman in Yell, is that man bound to deal at the shop of his employer?-By no means.
5240. By a free man, do you mean one who is not in debt?-Yes.
I don"t mean to say that cash would be absolutely refused even to a man who was in debt, but it would not be given to him unless it was for a necessary purpose.
5241. Can you explain how beach boys are generally employed in Yell?-Yes, I ought to have a pretty good idea of it.
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5242. Is an account opened at the shop at the same time that the engagement is made in the beach boy"s name, from which he can get supplies if he wishes them?-Yes, sometimes.
5243. So that when he becomes a beach boy, he is virtually independent of his father?-Not always. The fish-curer would prefer not to open an account with him until the end of the season, because generally, when a beach boy gets an account opened, he will overrun it if he possibly can. Therefore we prefer not to open an account with the boys themselves, but to deal with their fathers, which we very often do. In the case, however, of an orphan boy, or a boy who has got extravagant or helpless parents, we open an account with himself.
5244. Is there any difficulty in procuring the services of beach boys?-I never knew of any difficulty. I have cured fish since 1859, and I never had power over one, and I never wanted to have it.
5245. You had not power over them even where you had the fishermen bound to you?-No; they have not been bound for the last seven years while I have been curing.
5246. Is it seven years since those fishermen on Major Cameron"s estate were bound?-Yes.
5247. At that time did the obligation apply to their families?-No.
5248. Then the boys were not obliged to be engaged to you as beach boys?-No; we took any boy who was most convenient for ourselves, without taking into consideration whose tenant his father was.
5249. It has been said that there is an inclination on the part of the fish merchant to get the beach boys into his debt, so as to secure their services in the following year: is there any foundation for that statement?-I have heard it said, but I never could believe it was the case.
5250. Are the boys always quite ready to engage for that work?- They are always very anxious to engage for it, because always before they enter on hard labour they are able to take a turn on the beach, and they get something for that.
5251. But what they get for it is generally settled for in goods at the end of the year?-No, not generally. If a boy runs an account himself, it is settled in goods; but if it is an account with his father, it is settled in cash.
5252. May the proportion of the boys who have an account of their own be about one-half or about one-third of them?-I should say that for the last three years three-fourths of them have got an account of their own; but then they were not boys. Although they get the name of boys, they were old men and women.
5253. You mean that women are employed in that part of the work?-Yes.
5254. What are their wages?-In 1870 the parties under my control had from 4, 10s. down to 35s. according to age and ability; and in 1871 the people employed were all boys except one man: the boys had from 25s. to 35s., and the man had 3.
5255. Are you still in the fish-curing business?-Yes; I cure their fish for Spence & Co.
5256. Have you a shop now?-No.