9565. Have you no account running anywhere just now?-No.
9566. Are you not in debt to anybody?-I may be about 1s. or 2s.
in debt at the shop at Linkshouse, but that is all.
9567. If you engage to fish for Mr. Leask at Ulsta, will you open an account at his shop at once?-I should like to be as long as possible in opening an account.
9568. But I suppose you won"t get through the summer without doing so?-No. Of course I could not get through the summer without a little supplies.
9569. Do you think it would be an advantage to you if you could get your fish paid earlier in the season?-It would be an advantage in some respects. If I was not fishing for the proprietor, and if he wanted his rent at Martinmas and I did not settle with the fishcurer, then the proprietor might come upon me for the rent before I had money to pay him, and put me to expenses for that.
9570. Don"t the proprietors generally wait for your rent till after the settlement?-In some cases they do, but not always.
9571. Have you known cases where they would not wait until after settlement?-I have not known any but in some cases they would like to have the money as soon as it is due.
9572. Have you known any case in which the fishcurer would not advance money for the rent when the proprietor was needing it?-I never knew that.
9573. Does the fish-curer generally advance you money for that purpose?-Yes, if there is money coming to me at the settlement.
9574. Have you known a fish-curer giving a line to the proprietor for the rent?-Yes. I have got an order from one of our curers to the proprietor himself. I have got an order from Mr. Henderson to Messrs. Hay, and it was accepted the same as cash. That was last year; the order was for about 5. It was a stamped order on the bank. It was only for part of my rent, and I had to shift for the rest somewhere else.
9575. Was it a cheque for the whole balance due to you?-Yes.
9576. Did you get it at settling time?-I got it at the time when Messrs. Hay settled, but I did not get an account from Mr.
Henderson until after that.
9577. Then there was more due to you by Mr. Henderson than that?-A trifle. He took care to keep on the right side.
9578. Then you think it would not be of much difference to you to have an earlier payment?-I don"t know. It might suit a temperate man very well who could manage his own affairs; but for the man who required all his pence, I don"t think it would suit very well.
9579. Don"t you think it would be better if you were to be paid so much, perhaps every week or every month, during the course of the fishing, and then to be paid the balance according to the actual price at the end of the season?-I think that would be a very good plan, so far as I can see. It would keep the men from turning into debt, and it would enable them to go to the best market; whereas we who have no money are compelled to take our supplies from the fish-curer.
9580. Do you think that is often a loss to you?-I am certain it is, because his prices must be a little higher in consequence.
9581. Have you felt that yourself?-I felt it last year.
9582. Then anything would be an improvement which would enable you to keep out of debt and deal where you pleased?-Yes; if we had the means of dealing where we pleased, then we would be enabled to go to the best market.
9583. Have you compared the goods you have got from the merchants for whom you were fishing with those you could get elsewhere?-Yes. Last summer we were paying 1s. 3d. per peck for the flour which we were getting from Mr. Williamson at Ulsta, and there was as good flour in Messrs. Hay"s at Feideland at 1s.
1d.
9584. Have you ever made any other comparison of that kind?- No. Sometimes when we found the tea or sugar to be bad, we would try where we could get it best; but we could not run an account at these places, in case we might not be able to pay it from our fishing.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, HUGH HUGHSON, examined.
9585. You are a merchant at Gossaburgh?-Yes.
9586. Do you cure fish?-A few.
9587. How many boats had you last year?-I had no boats at all.
I deal altogether in ready money. I pay ready cash for all that is brought to me, but I only do in that way on a small scale. I have no bondmen, and I wish for no bondmen.
9588. Do you pay for the fish as they are delivered?-Yes; cash down.
9589. Do you purchase generally from men who are fishing promiscuously along the coast?-Yes.
9590. Do you buy from men who are engaged to other merchants?-No. There are it few small boats that fish along the sh.o.r.e, and when they come along the sh.o.r.e with their fish I buy them.
9591. How do you fix the price of the green fish which you buy from them?-I fix it from the merchants" price. Supposing I can get 20 in cash for dry fish, I consider that I can give about 7s. per cwt. for the same fish green, calculating 21/4 of green to 1 cwt. of dry.
9592. Do you think that kind of business might be carried on on a large scale?-I think it could; and am sure it would be much better for the men. I have been twelve years in the country, and I have found that by paying ready money I have got more custom.
9593. Have you no credit transactions at all?-Yes. I try to oblige people at times when they want goods.
9594. But you have no security in the shape of fish which you are to receive?-No.
9595. In fact you have no security at all except their honesty?- No. I now produce my fish-book, which contains entries of the fish as they are landed, and the prices which I pay for them.
9596. Do you find that the existence of long credits prevents you from driving as large a business as you might otherwise do?-The islands have groaned under the system of long credits for many years.
9597. But do you find that it interferes with your driving a larger business?-I have no command over men, and I do not wish to have, but I always find that when there is any money going I get my fair share of it; and I think if every one did the same, they would get a fair proportion of business.
9598. If the men could not get credit from the larger fish-curers, do you think they would be ready to deliver their fish to you for ready money at the current price?-I think they would. I believe I would be able to [Page 232] buy 100 worth for every 20 worth I buy now, if the men could not get supplies on credit elsewhere.
9599. Do you think the introduction of a cash system of that kind would greatly injure the men, and make them unable to get through the winter?-I think the introduction of a cash system into the islands would not do very well for the poor men, because they must often have 2 or 3 of supplies from the curers before they can begin work. What they complain of is, that the merchants charge them a little as commission upon the money which they pay for the goods.
9600. But instead of getting supplies as they do now, they would be paid for their fish every time they delivered them, and then they could purchase goods as they pleased with the cash?-Yes; but there are many men at present who have no means, and who must come to me and ask me for a few pounds at a time with which to pay their rents. If I refuse them that a.s.sistance they could not carry through at all. They could not wait until they got money from their fishing; they would become paupers; and therefore they require advances.
9601. Do you buy any fish in winter and spring?-Yes; I buy a good few in winter when I can get them.
9602. But not enough to keep a man going with his family?-No.
I made some money in Australia, and that is what keeps me going.
9603. But the men do not catch enough fish in winter and spring to keep their wives and families?-No. There are sometimes weeks when they can get none at all, the weather is often so stormy.
9604. If you have been in Australia, you know that there are storms elsewhere as well as here?-In Scotland they fish along the coast, but they have better boats and there are vessels always pa.s.sing, while here there are currents from the Gulf Stream which would frighten any man.
9605. You think they have not so good boats here?-They have not, but they work them wonderfully, and they sometimes frighten me when I come across them.
9606. Have you any idea why it is that these men come to you for credit instead of going to the merchants to whom they sell their fish?-Of course they cannot all deal in one place.
9607. But would they not get their credit much easier from the merchant who is to receive their fish?-They might get it from him, but perhaps they might have the same reason that the man had when he was courting; one man might like me whilst others might not. They might take fancies of that kind.
9608. Do you sell your goods at a lower price than the large merchants?-I cannot say I do. I sell as low as I can, and if I was not selling reasonably low I could not carry on at all.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, GEORGE WILLIAMSON examined.
9609. You are a fisherman at Mid Yell?-Yes. I go to the whaling and sealing.