9655. How long have you been in the country?-Between 15 and 16 years.
9656. Have you had experience as to the relations existing between proprietors of land and fish-merchants in Shetland?- A little.
9657. Would you explain the nature of the arrangements that have been made in former times, and which are now made, by which the rent of the proprietor is paid through or by the fish-merchant?-When I came to Shetland, Major Cameron"s property in Yell was let to Mr. Sandison as tacksman; but when the Major came from India, the lease had expired, and he appointed me to take charge of his property. Frequently at rent time the parties had not received their money for fish, and as a necessary consequence they got lines from their curer, the sums in which were placed to their credit by Major Cameron. The sum of these lines when all was over was sent to the fish-curer, the party who gave the lines, and a cheque on the bank was given for them.
9658. Was that merely a practice resorted to for the convenience of the fishermen and the proprietor, or was there an understanding with the fish-curer that he should make these advances?-It was a convenience for all parties.
9659. You are not aware that there was any understanding between the fish-curer and the proprietor to that effect?-There was an understanding between Major Cameron and Mr. Sandison.
9660. Was Mr. Sandison the fish-curer you have referred to?- Yes, Sandison Brothers. There was an understanding that any of Major Cameron"s tenants who were what might be called reckless or careless, should not be allowed to overdraw their earnings, but that something should be left for their rent.
9661. Was Mr. Sandison a tenant of Major Cameron"s in his fishcuring premises?-Yes.
9662. Were these lines always in the same form?-Generally they were the same. I have plenty of them at home.*
9663. Are you aware of a similar practice having existed on any other estate?-I believe it has existed but I cannot speak so positively about it on other estates. I may say that similar lines have also been given to Major Cameron and myself from another curer in North Yell, Mr. William Pole, jun. before he became a partner of the Mossbank firm.
9664. Had he premises from Major Cameron also?-No; he had his father"s premises. With regard to these lines, I may state that, although there was no understanding on the subject, Major Cameron made it a practice not to come to his tenants asking for their rents until he was pretty sure that everything was nearly cut-and-dry for him.
9665. Do you think it is a general practice in Shetland for the landlord to fix his rent day so as to be convenient for the fishermen?-I think it is. They fix it after settlement. Mr.
Walker, the first year he was factor for Major Cameron, came nearly close to his time, 11th November, but since then he has not done so.
9666. You are not aware whether that practice of giving lines exists in Yell now?-It does exist. I myself have paid rents by orders for cattle bought from Major Cameron"s tenants.
9667. Have you had much intercourse with the fishermen in your district of the country?-Yes; I often hear their conversations.
9668. Do you know generally the way in which business is conducted in the fish trade?-I think I do.
9669. Are you aware that much complaint exists with regard to the way in which the current price for fish is fixed at the end of the season?-The fishermen, as a general rule always complain.
9670. What are the grounds of their complaint?-I think the reason why they complain is, that they believe the curers never give them so large a price as they should do. There is a sort of jealousy abroad amongst all the fishermen, which perhaps originated in formerdays, but which is still rankling in their bosoms.
9671. A jealousy of whom?-A jealousy of the fish-curers, that they don"t give them fair play.
9672. Have you seen any cases where you thought they did not get fair play?-Not for some time past.
9673. Are you able to form an opinion upon the question whether the fishermen are justified in complaining of the manner in which the current price is fixed?-I think, as a general rule, they are not.
I know practically, from curers books that I had access to, that the current price is fairly fixed.
9674. Have you been employed as an [Page 234] accountant?- No; but I have had confidence placed in me, and I have seen their books.
9675. Have you any means of knowing whether there are more prices than one for the fish, according to the market to which they are sent?-I am aware that each curer does not receive the same price. There are exceptions to the rule. Some send their fish direct to the foreign market, and some sell to a home firm, who require something for their risk and trouble.
9676. Do you think the present system of distant payments for the fish could be altered, and a better one introduced?-I don"t well see how it could be altered for the benefit of the fishermen.
9677. Is that on account of the bad seasons which occur occasionally?-Not altogether on account of the bad season, but it suits them better. Many of them prefer to leave their money with their curer until they require it for their rents.
9678. They prefer him to act as their banker?-Exactly.
9679. Is it not the case that many fishermen who ask advances from their curers before the fishing season begins, or during its course, are really capitalists with considerable sums in the bank?-I am not aware of any case of that kind, but I know plenty of fishermen who have money in the bank. I should say that the system would perhaps be more healthy if the fishermen were paid when the fishing was over. That would remove many grievances now complained of.
9680. Do you think they should be paid in July or August?-In the end of August.
9681. But if they were paid then they might get a lower price than the fish-merchants eventually got?-They would have to be paid at a rate by which the curer would be certain to be safe as his fish had not gone to market, and they did not know what they would realize; but the same holds good on the coast of Scotland in the herring fishing.
9682. Would the fishermen, so far as you know them, be content with a system of that sort?-I cannot say; I rather think not.
9683. Do you think they would like to have the chance of a larger price?-They would engage just now for the next season if they were satisfied that they would realize 1s. more than the market would afford them at Martinmas.
9684. But they would not engage otherwise?-No.
9685. Do you think they would endeavour to get quit of such a bargain if the price at Martinmas should turn out to be higher than what they had agreed for the commencement of the season?- Attempts are made of that nature in their dealings in the selling of cattle.
9686. Are cattle sometimes sold according to a current price at a later period?-Cattle are sometimes bought during the spring. If not bought then, they are sold by auction at fixed sales in May, and in the mainland they have a Martinmas sale for fat cattle.
9687. But they are sometimes sold before these sales?-They are sold in spring to parties going through the district seeking cattle to buy; and during the last season the prices were so very high at the spring sales, that I know parties who had sold their cattle before, and then came back upon the purchaser asking him for the currency of the sale, although their animals had been sold months before.
9688. Did they get what they asked?-In one case they did.
9689. Was that from a proprietor?-No.
9690. Does the practice of marking the horns of cattle exist in Yell?-It does.
9691. In what circ.u.mstances is that done?-If a tenant becomes indebted to me and cannot pay me in cash, he offers me one of his cattle and to make sure of it I cut the initials of my name on its horns.
9692. Are you a.s.suming that you are the landlord?-It does not matter whether I am the landlord or not. I may be a merchant, and it is the merchants who do it; the landlord does not require to do it, because the hypothec protects him.
9693. But the merchant takes his chance of the landlord"s hypothec interfering with him?-Yes.
9694. If a merchant marks a beast in that way, is it generally exposed at the next periodical sale?-Sometimes it is, but sometimes it is taken away at a price fixed upon at the time.
If not, it is sold, and the merchant gets his money.
9695. Do you think the debtor in that case has perfect freedom in fixing the price?-Both parties fix it.
9696. But do you think the debtor is under no constraint?-None.
Arbitration would decide it.
9697. Arbitration might decide it, but is arbitration resorted to?- Sometimes. A person understood to be qualified puts a value upon the cattle, or the currency at which such animals are selling at that time is taken.
9698. It has been alleged that when merchants got people deeply in debt they mark their cattle, and they can take them at any price they choose: is that so?-I have never seen a case of that kind.
Such a practice may have existed 20 or 30 years ago, but I am entirely ignorant of it. I may further state something which was not exactly implied in your questions, but which in the south is generally misunderstood. As a general rule, the fishermen get one-third of the selling price of the fish. Fish dry in 5-9ths-that is 21/4 cwt. of green fish make 1 cwt. dry, fit for the market,-and it is understood that the curer pays one-third; but when the price may be 20 and upwards, he pays more than one-third of the selling prices. When the price is 14 or 15 he can only afford to pay one-third, the expenses being the same per ton for curing at the high price as at the low price. Suppose he sells his fish at 20 per ton, he pays his fishermen 7; 21/4 times 7 are 15, 15s. The curing of that ton of fish costs him 2, 10s., that is 18, 5s., leaving him 1, 15s. to pay for his salt, to transport them to his store, and ship them on board a vessel, and to pay their freight to Leith. Hence it follows that the fish-curer has very little profit indeed.
9699. Upon what data is that conclusion of yours rounded?-Upon facts which I know with regard to the prices paid by curers.
9700. Do you know the price of the salt and the expenses of curing, through the curers themselves?-The fixed price for curing has always been 50s.
9701. That is the price which they charge?-That is the price which a party would charge a curer for curing his fish.
9702. That would be for salting and curing?-They would salt them, but the salt belongs to the curer.