10,167. You have told them that they are under no such obligation?-Yes.
10,168. But, in point of fact, most of them do sell their fish to you?-They do.
10,169. And, in point of fact, most of them do sell their eggs and b.u.t.ter to you?-I think the great bulk of them do, but I cannot tell so well about the b.u.t.ter and eggs. We buy fully as much now at Uyea Sound as we did in any season before the company commenced.
10,170. And a number of the tenants also run accounts for shop goods with your shops?-Yes; I think most of them do so.
10,171. Do you think that having this lease is a facility to you in carrying on your business?-I rather think that in one sense it is the reverse, because at first it was so unpopular among the tenants, in consequence of dividing the farms in the first instance, and setting them on to work and cultivate and drain and clear the ground of stones, and to introduce a rotation of cropping, that it placed us as traders in the island to a great disadvantage, and created an unhappy feeling between the tenants and ourselves. I can say that for the last four years, I have spent about one-thirteenth of my time among them, just going from tenant to tenant three or four times every year, in the south parish.
10,172. Over what portion of the island does this lease extend?-It includes nearly one-half of the island. I have been compelled in some cases to use hard measures with the tenants to get them to alter the crop which they had put in, and to bring the land into rotation. That looked a very severe thing to them; but we stood between two fires, as it were.
10,173. You think it would be profitable for them in the end?-I have no doubt it will, and a good many of them are seeing that now.
10,174. But although this lease does not contain an express condition that the tenants are to fish for you, it gives you a power of ejecting them?-Of course it does.
10,175. And the tenants are aware of that?-Yes.
10,176. And of course they may feel a little more unwilling to deal with another party or to fish for him in consequence?-That may be. I don"t know what their private feelings may be, but the lease gives us it stronger power than that: it reserves the peats, and what could they do without peats? We have absolute power in that respect, if we choose to put it in force, but I hope never to see that done. We can refuse them peats altogether and scattald altogether, and we can shut them up altogether, but I hope I will never live to see that day.
10,177. In short, you can do anything you please with the tenants, except deprive any one of his holding who complies with these rules and regulations?-Yes.
10,178. The only security he has is to comply with them?-Yes.
10,179. As to the peats and scattalds, he has no security at all?- None.
10,180. You spoke of a bounty of 2s. per ton which you allowed your fishermen at settlement: does that not correspond with the present which is made at settlement at other places by way of drinking money?-They say in other places that they give nothing of that kind, but it would correspond with that.
10,181. Do you give the men anything besides as a gratuity at settling time?-No; we give nothing in the way of drink money.
They get what is called a midsummer bottle: that is an old custom, and it still continues among all the fishermen.
10,182. Have you had a good deal to do in the hosiery trade?- Yes, I have bought a good deal of it.
10,183. I understand you buy a quant.i.ty of worsted from the spinners in Unst and sell it south?-Yes; I generally sell it in Lerwick.
10,184. At what rates do you generally buy the worsted?-We never like to buy anything coa.r.s.er than we can give 3d. per cut for.
10,185. The weight of that, I suppose, varies?-The weight of what we give 3d. per cut for would be about 6 cuts to the ounce.
10,186. That would be 24s. per lb.?-Yes; but the number of ounces is not a criterion, because the less the weight the higher the price. We have given as high as 7d. per cut for worsted, and that should weigh 14 cuts of 100 threads to the ounce. That would be 8s. 2d. per ounce, or more than 7 per lb.
10,187. Is not that a very high price?-Yes; but we would give cash for any amount of that kind of worsted we could get, or for worsted at 6d. for 12 cuts to the ounce, but very few can spin that.
It is a very fine thread.
10,188. Have you known much worsted sold at the rate of 7, 12s.
per lb.?-No, not very much, because there are very few who can spin it so fine. It is just like a cobweb.
10,189. What quant.i.ty of worsted of that sort would it take to make a shawl of the ordinary size? About 40 cuts?-That would be a small shawl. I have put as high as 70 cuts of that fine worsted into a shawl; but that was a large shawl. The usual size is 25 to 30 scores, made out of 3d. worsted.
10,190. The score refers to the size of the shawl?-Yes; twenty scores is twenty threads or twenty st.i.tches of the needle across from side to side.
10,191. Is the size of the shawl generally measured by the score or by the yard?-It is generally measured by the score when the girl commences to knit it.
10,192. Then a shawl of that size would take 40 cuts of that fine worsted?-No; a 21/4 yard shawl would take 60 cuts of that fine worsted.
10,193. The worsted of such a shawl would cost 1, 15s?-Yes.
10,194. Can you give me any idea what the knitting of that shawl is generally put in at?-The knitting of shawl of that kind should be 25s. to 30s.
10,195. Are these shawls made in Unst?-Yes; I have got a shawl made in Unst that cost 4, and some that cost 3, and between 3 and 4.
10,196. Would the knitting cost as much in Lerwick?-I don"t know. I generally think, as a rule, that the knitter ought to get as much for her work as the price of the worsted.
10,197. But it is somewhat less than the price of the worsted in these fine shawls?-Yes.
10,198. Suppose a shawl of which the worsted cost you 35s.
and the knitting 25s.-that is 3 altogether: what would that be invoiced for to the merchant in the south?-Perhaps I am not able to give very good information upon that point, because I have always found these shawls to be a part of my stock which it was very difficult to dispose of.
10,199. Do you mean the fine shawls?-No. I have generally got shawls of that sort made upon an order from gentlemen who happen to come down here, and I usually charge them the cost of the work and dressing, and so on; but I have found it a very difficult thing to sell hosiery.
10,200. Is the 25s. which the knitter gets paid to her in money or in goods?-Almost always in goods.
10,201. And you have been calculating now upon the footing that that price was to be paid in goods?-Yes; but if I got an order for the shawl, I would not care whether it was to be paid for in goods or in cash.
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10,202. That is because if you had got the order you would receive a cash payment?-Yes.
10,203. Whereas, if you were selling it to a merchant, you might have to take goods from him for the value?-It is not exactly that, but I might not get it sold at all. My object in dealing in hosiery is more to oblige my customers than because it is an article on which make a profit. A great bulk of the shawls which sell for about 30s.
are made from 3d. worsted. That would be 7s. 6d. for the worsted, and the knitting would be 8s. or 9s. in goods, then there would be 6d. for dressing, and that would be about the cost of an ordinary shawl.
10,204. How much would that sell for in the market?-I don"t know. I have tried most of the best hosiers who deal in shawls, and I always lost them.
10,205. Do you invoice shawls to Edinburgh?-Yes, pretty often; but I tried to get out of it because we lost a good deal by it. I suppose these wholesale buyers in the south do their largest trade with the merchants in Lerwick, and they don"t like to buy from the country people in case it might operate against their own interests.*
*Mr. Sandison afterwards wrote the following letter in supplement of his evidence:-
"I much regret you could not make your examination in Unst more exhaustive.
"Witnesses were asked the effects of the present system on the morals of the people. I am of opinion their morals will compare very favourably with any other county in Scotland; and I will say for my countrymen, that for intelligence and common sense they are superior to many of the same cla.s.s elsewhere.
"From careful observation and considerable experience, I have come to think that the increase of small shops acts injuriously on the poorest of the people, leading to the practice of deceit between man and wife, mother and child, as well as between cla.s.s and cla.s.s. Many families of the poor and indebted fishermen sell their farm produce, b.u.t.ter, eggs, etc., and even meal and corn, out of their own crop, to some of these small shops for trifling luxuries of no real benefit; and, worst of all, most of these small shops sell spirits surrept.i.tiously, it is believed, to a greater extent than the licensed dealer. As a rule, in my experience, the man who sells his produce in quant.i.ty to the large buyer or fish-curer is independent, and has cash in hand and bank; while the man who dribbles away his produce through these shops, only giving his summer fish to the fish-curer, is in debt and poverty. While one man can take up 4 to 6 for the one article of b.u.t.ter, in cash at settlement, the other, with as many milch cows, has nothing. The monopoly said to exist here has not reduced these shops; there are fourteen shops in Unst.
"The interests of the small dealer is . The interests of the fish-curer and larger dealer is the people"s as much as his own, he must supply all their necessary wants, pay rents, and carry them through with food, at least in unsuccessful seasons; their independence is his gain, their poverty his ruin, by incurring debts, in many cases never paid. This is bad; but in my opinion it is not this, nor barter, call it truck if you like, that has kept Shetland so far behind, but the utter neglect of the soil, and slovenly farming, for the last 100 years. I don"t think 100 acres have been added to the cultivated ground by tenant crofters, while in that time the population has increased more than one-third; in place of adding, I am sorry to say that in many cases there has been a most destructive system of reducing going on, by delving down hill for ages until the tops of many fields are wasted to the rock. I have seen places where considerable extents was lost in this way; and for draining and clearing out stones, that was unthought of. For this state of matters, both proprietors and tenants are to blame. Proprietors, in my opinion, have been far too careless of their poperty, not heeding how the crofter farmed, if the rent was paid; and the naturally indolent man reduced more so, by neglecting to increase and improve his farm during the long winter, when he could do little else. Then the breeding and rearing of cattle has been utterly neglected by the small tenants: we have made a right start with that in this island now."In all my experience I find the best farmer (I speak of the crofters) is never the worst fisher, and is generally out of debt; while the bad and slovenly farmer, though an extra good fisherman, often falls behind, indeed generally so. Of late I have come to the conclusion that the time spent at the winter fishing is a loss to the crofter, as I do think he can be more profitably employed on his farm, at least until he puts it in proper order. Not to enlarge, I consider the land question a more serious one than the truck for Shetland. Get our crofter fishermen to feel and take an interest in the soil they cultivate; induce them to habits of constant activity on their land, when not fully employed at fishing; get them, by whatever way, to take a pleasure in rendering the waste places of their farm productive of food for man and beast; give them better houses; let them have every reasonable encouragement from their proprietors, with patient continuous oversight by those competent to give direction and advice: I would hope for more from this than all the "Truck Acts" in the world.
"In place of putting shackles on the fish-curers, who are trying to develop that one branch of our industry, they ought to be encouraged. Much capital is invested in it; and when as much has been done to develop the land as is being done to develop the deep sea, I am sure we will require no "Truck Act."
"I would like to say a word on the Rev. Mr. Smith"s evidence to price and quality of the goods sold in Unst, but may take another time for that: enough to say just now, that he has yet to try mine."