10,386. You pay your rent to them, and deal with them at their shop at Haroldswick?-Yes, I get all my goods there.
10,387. Do you deal anywhere else?-No.
10,388. Why?-For want of money.
10,389. How do you want money?-Because I don"t have it.
10,390. Have you had bad seasons?-I never was in debt before I came to Spence. & Co.
10,391. How did you get into debt with them?-From bad seasons in the first place, and from overpriced goods. Meal is over-priced, for one thing. My father has dealt twelve years with ready money; and I have seen the advantage he has got by it, and what I have lost.
10,392. Who is your father?-William Harper: he is a fisherman too; he has been master of a boat for about forty years to Mr.
Spence.
10,393. How do you know that the meal is over-priced which you get from Messrs. Spence"s shop?-The first meal I got from Spence & Co. was one boll, when I began to fish for them four years ago. My father got one half of the sack, and I got the other: I was charged 27s., and he was charged 24s. 6d.
10,394. Why was that?-I had nothing to give Spence & Co., but my father had ready money. That was in the spring before I commenced to fish.
10,395. You did not settle for the meal until the end of the year?- No.
10,396. Consequently they were long in getting their money from you?-Yes.
10,397. Was it not quite fair that they should get little more for lying out of their money all that time?-Yes; but 2s. 6d. was too much to charge for interest. That was only on meal, but I could make more profit on groceries and soft goods too.
10,398. Have you anything more to say about the meal?-That is the only thing I can recollect about it.
10,399. Have you bought your meal in the same way ever since?- Yes, until last year, when I had as much as could supply myself.
10,400. How many bolls had you to buy in the course of the year?-From 4 to 6.
10,401. Do you think you lost 2s. 6d. a boll on each of these?-I have no doubt I did, for want of ready money.
10,402. What have you to say about the other things?-That was somewhat further back, but at any rate I have been out of pocket with Spence & Co. ever since commenced with them. I was a skipper where I was before, and got a skipper"s fee; but the fee which I got from Spence & Co. is not so much as I got formerly. I fished for John Johnston for 11 years. For the first two years I was only a young fellow, and was to be paid according to my fishing.
After that, I got promise of 4 of skipper"s fee, and when he saw I was getting on so well he always gave me 5 afterwards. Then I was forced-at least I believed I was forced, although I know now that I was not-to go to Spence & Co. from John Johnston, because he got his warning and could not keep me, but had to sell his boats or boat.
10,403. When was that?-In 1867 or 1868. He had two boats, and he sold the one I was fishing in.
10,404. How were you forced to leave him?-Because Spence & Co. got a tack from Mr walker, and I and all the north parish understood that I had to leave my employer and go to them.
10,405. Were you not told that you were quite at liberty to fish either to Spence & Co. or to any other person?-I was never told that until I heard Mr. Sandison say it. I don"t think it was told in the north of the island; at least I was not told about it.
10,406. Were you ever told that you had to fish for Spence & Co?-That was rather hinted at.
10,407. Who hinted it?-Mr. Mouat. I was rather hot-tempered, and so was he, and when we were both hot he gave me a hint about that.
10,408. Was that in 1868?-I think so.
10,409. I suppose you conveyed the hint to a good number of others?-Yes. I sat down and wrote a letter to Mr. Walker, telling him what had been said; and I got an answer from him, saying I was to work according to the rules I had in my lease, and that no one could interfere.
10,410. Is there anything more you have to say?-There is nothing particular; but I may say that there are a good many skippers here, and a good many poor men, who will never be asked to come forward, and will never get the chance.
10,411. They may come forward if they like?-They don"t care about coming forward, and there are some of them whose stories are far worse than mine.
[Page 253]
Baltasound, Unst, January 19, 1872, CHARLES GRAY, examined.
10,412. You are a mason at Balliasta?-Yes.
10,413. Have you been working lately in the chromate of iron quarries?-Not for the last few years. I think it is six years since I was there.
10,414. How were the wages paid at these quarries when you were working at them?-Mr. Mouat was superintending then.
10,415. When did he cease to superintend?-I think it is only about a year back, or two years.
10,416. Was there a change in the company then?-Yes. There was a new company formed then, and new people to work the quarries.
10,417. Who was working the quarries when you were employed there?-There were different agents during the time I was there; but Mr. Mouat was superintendent.
10,418. You don"t know who the company were?-I think the company were just the proprietors.
10,419. Were your wages paid to you in cash?-Yes; we got them in cash from the cashier, the late Mr. Charles Mouat,-not the present Mr. Mouat.
10,420. Where were they paid to you?-Sometimes at his house, and sometimes at the vestry, which was a public place.
10,421. But always in cash?-Yes, always in cash, since there was a cashier appointed.
10,422. Did you not sometimes get lines?-No; I never got lines. I cannot say for others, but I never got one.
10,423. Did you never see a line?-Not to my recollection.
10,424. Did you ever hear of lines being given?-I did hear about that, but I could not vouch for it being true.
10,425. What did you hear about it?-That some parties had got lines for part of their wages.
10,426. What were they to do with the lines?-I don"t know.
10,427. What did you understand they were to do with them?-I understood the line was to be paid at the place where it was sent to.
10,428. Was that at the shop?-Yes.
10,429. And to be paid in goods?-I did not know that.
10,430. Did you not know whether there was any practice of that sort?-No, I did not know about it myself.
10,431. Have you heard that there was?-Yes; but it is a long time back.
10,432. I understood you had been employed there lately?-No.