14,328. Have you run an account with the man for that?-If he was well known to us, we would have no objection to give him credit.
14,329. But can you name the case of any man who was engaged for the whaling by another agent and who received credit from you?-I could not name a case. It is done just in the ordinary way of trade, and we would not pay any attention to a case like that.
We could not be expected to recollect where every customer was going.
14,330. Is it not the case that every man who engages with you does take so much of his outfit as he requires from Mr. Leask"s shop?-I think that is very generally the case; but he does it because he chooses to do it, and because, I suppose, he thinks he will be as well served there as by going elsewhere. With regard to the report, again, I say that the greater proportion of the men are settled with in a reasonable time.
14,331. Do you mean within six months?-The greater proportion of them are settled with in one month.
14,332. That is the case now?-Yes.
14,333. But formerly the time was considerably greater, was it not?-I don"t think there was much difference. The men came then when it suited them, and they do the same now, except when they are all landed in Lerwick at one time, and choose to stay few days in town to get the settlement carried through. They are not bound to a day now more than they were then; but the releases and official papers in the Custom House can prove the proportion of men discharged within the month.
14,334. Mr. Robertson showed me some accounts with Greenland whaling men in which there was a charge for insurance upon outfits: is that an arrangement made by you with the men?-Yes.
14,335. Have you explained to them the nature of the charge, and why it was made before entering it in your books against them?- Yes; we have been doing that for the last fifteen years at least. If the vessel is lost, then the men don"t pay for the outfit; it is paid by the insurance.
14,336. Mr. Leask is also an agent for the Shipwrecked Mariners"
Fund, and there is a charge of 3s. made at the beginning of each man"s account for a payment to that Fund?-Yes.
14,337. Does that 3s. cover the loss of clothing?-They get that in addition. When the vessel is lost, the man gets an allowance for clothing, and also the payment from the Shipwrecked Mariners"
Fund. He gets the allowance for clothing in this way: that he pays nothing for the goods if the vessel is lost, and then he gets the allowance from the Shipwrecked Mariners" Society in addition, and is sent home free if he is landed in any part of the kingdom.
14,338. Therefore that is a double insurance?-Yes.
14,339. If a man is lost, his widow, in return for the 3s., gets an annuity or some allowance?-Yes. The amount of it depends on the number of years he has subscribed, and the number of his family. It varies considerably; but she gets an allowance at first, and generally a small annual grant.
14,340. Is that 3s. paid in every case when the men are going to Greenland?-It is such a small payment, and they have experienced so much benefit from it, that they never object to it now.
14,341. I suppose that charge is entered in a man"s account as a matter of course?-Yes.
14,342. You say that if a man who subscribes that 3s. loses his outfit, or his boat, or anything, that is covered by the insurance, and he is ent.i.tled to a certain payment, which is made by the agents?-Yes.
14,343. Is that payment always made in cash?-Always.
14,344. How long is it since it has been universally made in cash at your agency?-It has always been made in cash, so far as I had to do with it.
14,345. Do you remember of any sums of a few pounds in cash being paid from the Shipwrecked Mariners" Fund?-There are often payments of that kind.
14,346. Do you remember any case of it man being refused payment of his allowance in cash?-No.
14,347. Or being asked to take goods?-No, I don"t recollect any such case.
14,348. Do you remember the case of a man named Williamson from Coningsburgh having a claim against Mr. Leask, as agent for the Society, in respect of a loss which he had sustained, and falling within the conditions of the Shipwrecked Mariners" Fund?-I don"t recollect anything about the case or about the man.
14,349. Do you remember any case where the amount due from the Shipwrecked Mariners" Fund was put to the credit of a person insured, in order to reduce the debt due by him to Mr. Leask?- No, I don"t recollect any such case.
14,350. Can you say that that has never been done?-I cannot say that exactly. Perhaps if the man chose to put the money to his account it would be done.
14,351. But can you say it has never been done where the man did not choose to put the money to his account?-It has never been done where the man did not choose, so far as I know.
14,352. Do you know any case in which Mr. Leask has asked the man to do it, or has proposed to do it, and the man has resisted?- No.
14,353. Is an allowance of that kind sometimes put to the credit of a man who has an account in Mr. Leask"s books, and taken out in goods in the course of the year?-It may be in some cases.
14,354. Is it not usually the case when a sum of that kind falls due that it is entered to the man"s credit?-That is not usually the case, because n.o.body knows whether it will be paid or not, or whether the man will have a claim to receive money.
14,355. But when you know that it is due, and that it is to be paid, and the man happens to have an account, is the amount not just entered in that account and credited to the man?-It may be in some cases, but it is only when a man is wrecked that he is ent.i.tled to any allowance from the Society; we don"t know when he is to be wrecked, and therefore he cannot get advances on the faith of a claim against the Society.
14,356. I am not speaking about advances on the faith of a claim; but when the money is due, is it not generally put into the man"s account?-Not generally, but there may have been a case or two of that kind.
14,357. Is it generally handed over to him in cash?-Generally.
[Page 359]
14,358. Even when a man has an account, and when the balance of that account is against him?-The man perhaps will not require it to be handed over to him if he had an account and wished the amount of his debt to be reduced by putting that to it. In that case there would be very little occasion for a transfer of the cash, but I can scarcely recollect any cases of that kind.
14,359. I am not asking whether the man wishes it or not, I am asking whether it is ever done, or whether it is generally done?-I should say it is not generally done. I would say it is almost never done.
14,360. How many of these payments have you to make in the course of a year?-In some years there are very few.
14,361. Will there sometimes be a dozen?-Perhaps there may, but I could not say, without the books.
14,362. And you say that out of the dozen payments which you make, one half of them will pa.s.s through the men"s accounts?- No, I should not say that.
14,363. Should you say that three out of every dozen did so?-No, I should not even say that.
14,364. Should you say that one in every dozen pa.s.sed through the men"s accounts?-I might say one, but I could not be sure. It might be less, or it might be none at all.
14,365. Might it not be more?-It is not a regular business transaction at all, and it is very seldom that such a thing ever enters the accounts. It is a present payment for an accident happening to a man, and he just gets the money, and there is no more about it; but it might happen occasionally that he applied it towards payment of a debt.
14,366. The premium or subscription of 3s. universally pa.s.ses into the man"s account?-Yes.
14,367. I cannot quite see why the payment of a policy should not also go into the man"s account if he has one?-It is only when a man is wrecked that such it payment is to be made. There are many men who have been paying for twenty or thirty years, and have never had occasion to claim against the Society, while there are others who have.
14,368. But if a man happens to have an account running with Mr.
Leask, do you say that the payment is made to him in cash rather than put in to the account?-No, I don"t say that, because the man might make no difficulty in applying it to his account, if he had one; but we are applying for men from different parts of the country who have no account with us, and in these cases the money is paid over at once.
14,369. In the majority of cases in which the money is paid through you when it is due, is it not to the men who have paid their premium through you?-By no means. We issue a great many tickets to men who are not in our employment at all,-men going south, and fishermen on the islands. I think we are generally called upon to make applications in cases of loss in preference to the other agents, and that money is paid over to the men at once.
14,370. Then do you say it is the case that the money is entered in the man"s account whenever he has an account with you?-If the man to whom the money was to be paid had an account, it might probably be put to that account; but of course it would only be done with the man"s concurrence.
14,371. Did you ever know any man object to that being done?-I cannot say that I ever did.
14,372. Are you sure that you never did?-Yes, I am sure.
14,373. Is there anything else you wish to say?-I wish to correct the statement made in the report, that it is the interest of the agent to delay the settlement until he gets the man in debt to him again.
I say that is not the fact.