14,408. Did he usually transmit it to his family for their maintenance during his absence, or spend it at the time in supplies for them?-Yes; in the case of a married man, I think the most of it was sent home, to be a provision for his family during his absence.
14,409. Is it usual for the man, at the same time, to send home a certain amount of supplies for his family upon an account?-Very often that was the case.
14,410. Is it not the case now?-It is not done to the same extent now, in consequence of the recent Board of Trade regulations, because the men don"t get nearly so many advances.
14,411. Is the agent not willing to trust them to the same extent now?-No; they do not get the same sort of supplies now which they did formerly, which was generally meal.
14,412. But does the agent still afford them supplies of another kind?-He gives them an outfit for the voyage.
14,413. Does he not generally go beyond that in the supplies which he gives to them?-Not to anything like the same extent as formerly.
14,414. In fact he restricts their credit?-Very much.
14,415. Would you say that the advances given in that way are now reduced by one half?-Fully. Another statement which Mr.
Robertson made was, that [Page 361] their books don"t show the cash paid when the men are discharged at the Shipping Office.
14,416. I understand from what Mr. Robertson stated, and I think I saw from the books themselves, that the books still show the amount due to the man after settling his account with Mr. Leask,- that is to say, that the system of book-keeping which was in use before 1867 is still continued in the shop?-Yes.
14,417. The cash is actually paid in presence of the superintendent, but no settlement takes place in the books until afterwards?-Yes.
14,418. Has your system been changed since 1867?-Our system has not been changed; only, so far as I know, the practice of paying the whole balance to a seaman was not put in force until 1871. We had then ceased to be agents.
14,419. Had you ceased to be agents in 1871?-Yes.
14,420. In what way was the system carried on until 1871?-Every man on being landed was furnished with an account of wages, according to the Board of Trade regulations; and our practice, when furnishing that to a man, was to read over his account from the ledger, and tell him what balance he had to get, according to our account; and he was paid accordingly at the Shipping Office.
When he appeared at the Shipping Office, the shipping master, or any one acting for him, asked the man if he had got his account of wages from the agent. He said "Yes." "Are you satisfied with your account?" "Yes;" and then I paid the amount of the balance. The shipping master did not see that what I had paid was the exact sum entered in the account of wages.
14,421. Then, in point of fact, what you paid was the sum actually due to the man in his private account with you?-Yes; that is to say, we squared accounts at the Shipping Office.
14,422. Was the shipping master aware that the cash actually pa.s.sing was not the sum stated in the account of wages?-I am not aware of that. It was only last year that I understand the real sum paid was entered in the release which a man subscribed, and of course the shipping master had then to be satisfied that the actual sum was paid.
14,423 Was there a change in the form of the release then?-Yes, to that extent.
14,424. I understand the release is signed by the seamen, and the sum paid to each man is entered in the column opposite his name?-Yes.
14,425. That column either did not exist or was not filled up previous to 1871?-Yes. There was no column of that kind then.
14,426. Was that the reason why, in 1871, the superintendent began to look into the matter more closely, and to require that he should be satisfied that the actual sum named in the regulation account of wages was handed to the seamen?-Yes.
14,427. Under the present system, the superintendent has to give a certificate to that effect upon the release?-I suppose so.
14,428. Mr. Robertson stated that, in his experience, no allotment notes were ever taken in the names of the agents?-Yes; and that is another thing with regard to which I differ from him. That has been done in my own experience. Several young men, who had no wives to receive their allotment notes, asked at the Shipping Office if they could be made payable in my own name and the shipping master said it was quite legitimate. I think that occurred first in 1867.
14,429. Have you had such allotment notes in your own name since?-They were signed in that way unasked by me. I never knew about it until the men stated it in my presence.
14,430. The object of signing the allotment notes in that way was to enable you to draw their wages, or rather to retain their wages in security for your advances to them?-It had that effect.
14,431. In what year did you cease to act for Mr. Leask?-I left him in the end of 1865.
14,432. Had any allotment notes been taken before then in the agent"s name?-Not to my knowledge.
14,433. While you in his employment, was it the practice to give the sailors no allotment notes at all?-Yes. I am not aware, from my own experience, that allotment notes were granted previous to 1867.
14,434. Is there any other point on which you differ from Mr.
Robertson"s evidence?-Not having heard the whole of his evidence, I cannot say; but these are the only points on which I differ from him, so far as I heard what he stated.
14,435. You have handed me a memorandum with regard to the voyage of the s.s. "Narwhal" of Dundee, in the seal and whale fishing of 1866, showing the earnings of the Shetland portion of the crew, the amount in cash paid to each man, and the time of settlement?-Yes.
14,436. Was that memorandum made for the owners?-No. I have made it up from my books for the purposes of this examination.
14,437. That statement shows that thirty-one men were engaged through you for that vessel in that year, that their earnings amounted to 411, 15. 8d., and the amount paid in cash to 321, 19s. 10d. You also state the average earnings to be 13, 5s. 8d.; the average cash 10, 7s. 9d., and the average goods 2, 17s.
11d.?-Yes.
14,438. You also state that seven of the men were discharged on the same day when they left the vessel and that the others were discharged afterwards at different times, varying from seven days up till two, two and a half, seven and a half, and eight and a half months after they left the vessel?-Yes.
14,439. Was the average amount of cash received by the men of the "Narwhal," on that voyage, below or above, the average received by men in other ships, in your experience?-I have not looked particularly at the other books. That was not a very successful voyage, otherwise the goods might have been a little more, and the cash would have been more as well.
14,440. You have also produced a similar memorandum with regard to the s.s. "Arctic," in 1867, after the new regulations were introduced, which shows that the proportion in goods and money had not altered very much?-Yes.
14,441. Do you think it has altered since 1867?-I don"t think so.
14,442. I thought you said that since 1867 you had greatly limited your advances to the men?-I consider the amount advanced, even in 1867, to be limited.
14,443. The amount of goods advanced in 1866 was 2, 17s.
11d. out of 13, 5s. 8d. of average earnings in the case of the "Narwhal," and in 1867, in the case of the "Arctic," it was 2, 13s.
1d. out of 11, 15s. 3d. of average earnings: that was very nearly the same proportion?-Yes.
14,444. Can you say that the amount of cash paid now is much greater than it was as shown in this return?-No; of course much will depend upon the success of the voyage, but I don"t think there would be a great difference in the proportion.
14,445. Then is this memorandum intended to show that as much cash was paid before 1867 as you pay now?-I just took these two ships for the two respective years. I had no such object in view as you suggest.
14,446. Do you think that, in point of fact, as much cash was paid before 1867 as is paid now?-As I said before, it depends very much on the success of the voyage.
14,447. But you have had a great deal of experience, and, taking an average successful voyage, would the payment of cash be as great before 1867 as it has been since?-The regulations of the Board of Trade won"t interfere with that to any great extent, but the agents have not been engaging so many young hands since.
14,448. Is it your experience, as well as Mr. Robertson"s, that green hands are not employed now to the same extent as they were formerly?-Yes; that must be the experience of every one.
14,449. What is the total cost of a green hand"s outfit?-About 7.
14,450. The average amount spent on outfit by a man who has been at the whaling before must, I suppose, be [Page 362]
considerably less?-A man who has been there for many years before may be keeping up his outfit.
14,451. May he require to spend 3 or 4 when he goes out again?-He may not require to spend one half of that.
14,452. And besides that he obtains a higher wage?-Yes.
14,453. Are you in the habit of insuring your men"s outfits?-Yes.