2231. The 11s. 11d., I think you say, shows a balance upon goods got by her?-Yes; I presume it is the balance, after deducting what she got for that work.
2232. What would she probably get for the work bestowed by her upon 2 oz. black mohair?-I suppose that would make four or five veils. Perhaps she might get 5s. Then, besides these little things which are entered there, she might have got some things when she was personally present, and the last balance would be struck upon the whole.
2233. I understand you to state quite distinctly that this book is the only one in which entries are made of any transactions with workers employed by you?-The only one. As I said before, we do very little in that way now; and this represents the whole of it.
2234. Do your sales to these women not appear in your shop day-book?-No; these are the whole entries. If they get anything when they come with their work, there is no entry made of it at all.
2235. If a woman, either a knitter employed by you, or one who sells to you, comes to your shop and has a large sum of money to get, is it the practice that you do not pay her entirely in goods, but give her an advance in cash; or is it sometimes your practice to give her a line?-We don"t give lines at all; but I may say that it is very seldom any of them have very much to get.
2236. If a woman has something to get and does not want goods, do you make an entry of any kind to her credit similar to those debtor entries against her?-I see here an entry: "December 26- Ann Anderson, 2 oz. black mohair. D. 5d., Cr. 7s. 6d." That 5d.
has been got afterwards.
2237. Then she could have come at any time and got that 7s.
6d.?-Yes; and more if she had wanted it.
2238. That sum is probably standing to her credit yet?-Yes; she has that to get just now.
2239. If she had got it, in what way would it have been marked out?-It would have been marked returned, and another entry made of the new work which she had got.
2240. I show you an entry in another part of the same book: what does that mean?-It is a memorandum of the goods given to women to dress. These are the goods given to Mrs. John Gifford.
They are marked down when they are given out, and when they are returned they are marked out. There are more dressers than one.
2241. Here is one entry: "January 3-Mary Greig, Trondra, 9 oz.
black. D. 8d., Cr. 7s." Was that a country girl?-Yes.
2242. Is it not usual for country girls to take away all the value of their goods when they come in with them?-I think that is generally what they do; but sometimes, as in that case, the girl does not seem to have been requiring anything.
2243. You don"t know whether that girl asked for money?-I don"t know; but the shop-girl would be able to tell.
2244. You have no doubt that if she had asked for it, she would have got it?-If she had asked for it, she would have got it; but, as I have said before, it had been so long the custom not to pay money, that they did not ask it, not expecting to get it.
2245. Do you say that your profit upon your drapery goods is calculated at about 15 per cent.?-I should say about 15 to 25 per cent.; that is the ordinary retail profit over all.
2246. Supposing you were to make a profit upon your hosiery goods, what profit would you expect to get from your drapery goods?-I understand that in the south the profit in the drapery trade is generally estimated at 15 per cent. on an average.
2247. And you make it vary here, according to the different goods, at from 15 to 25 per cent.?-Yes.
2248. Is that in order to cover your risk upon the hosiery?-Yes; I should say so. It would be much better for us to sell for cash down, with a smaller price, than to sell at a higher nominal price, and to lie out of the money for perhaps a couple of years, and perhaps run the risk of making a bad debt with the hosiery. I may add that we sometimes do make bad debts to a pretty large amount. Some years ago I lost 150 by one customer.
2249. Was he a purchaser of hosiery?-Yes.
2250. Show me any entry in this book relating to a shawl made for you?-There [showing] is 7 oz. black, which was given to a woman for a shawl which she is at present making. Here is another, Mary Greig, who made a black shawl, and returned it.
2251. Does the book show how much was the payment usually got for the making of it?-She came back on 23d January, and she is credited with the amount. She had 2s. to get when she got the work to do.
2252. And she has now 7s.; but the difference between 2s. and 7s.
does not show the payment to her?-No; because she might have got more goods at the time, and there would be nothing put down in the book then except the actual balance.
2253. You don"t know what goods she got?-No; but I have no doubt the shop-girl will be able to tell.
2254. Can you tell me what payment would be made to a worker of that kind for such a shawl?-I think perhaps 10s. It depends a good deal on the size of thread and on the style of knitting. Of two shawls of the same size, and having the same weight of wool in them, one may be worth 2s. 6d. more for knitting than another, on account of the pattern the girl might put into it, and the style in which it was done.
2255. Then that shawl would be sent south, I presume?-We might sell it here.
2256. What do you consider the value of the material for that shawl, 9 oz.?-That black worsted would have cost us in England about 8s. a pound.
2257. Then the worsted would come to about 4s. 6d. as the value of the material?-Yes.
2258. And 10s. for the work: that would be 14s. 6d.?-Yes.
2259. And 6d. for dressing, or 15s. altogether?-Yes.
2260. At what price would that shawl be invoiced to a customer in the south?-It would depend upon whether it was to a wholesale house or to a retail customer. We have to sell these goods at a lower price to wholesale houses in the south, who have again to sell them, than we would sell them for to others.
2261. In that way there are two cla.s.ses of customers?-Yes.
2262. Who are your princ.i.p.al correspondents in the south?-[The witness shows the names in a book.] This is the day-book, which we use exclusively for our transactions in hosiery with the south.
That book has just been finished. The last entry is 6th November 1871, and since then our entries as to hosiery sent south have gone into our ordinary shop day-book: we have not provided a separate book for them.
2263. You say that you have two cla.s.ses of customers, wholesale and retail?-Yes; we have wholesale customers, such as these houses whose names I have pointed out to you. We also sell to private persons, and of course we must make a difference. We must sell to these wholesale houses at a much less figure, because they have again to sell them perhaps to the very same retail customers.
2264. At what price would that shawl of Mary Greig"s be invoiced to the south?-It is not away yet but I think I will be able to find some of the same [Page 46] kind. It is very difficult to say what it would be, because there is such a difference in the quality of the worsted, and the price of the raw material differs a good deal. For instance, here is black Pyrenees wool, costing about 8s. a pound, and here is black mohair wool, 27s. a pound. It would cost us roughly about 2s. an oz.; but that shawl, I should say, would be of Pyrenees wool, costing about 8s. a pound. That [showing an entry of a shawl invoiced to a house in London at 20s.] would be something like it. I may mention that an account like that won"t be paid for eighteen months, and then it will be paid with a discount of 5 per cent.
2265. Is that a fair specimen of the average sales of shawls?-Yes.
2266. And the average difference between the cost for materials and workmanship?-Yes.
2267. Do you pay the freight?-The consignee pays the freight.
2268. Is this day-book a copy of your invoices which you send to these houses?-Yes. In some cases we copy the invoices in a letter-book, and then re-write them into this day-book. I can produce the letter-book if you wish to see it.
2269. Does not that difference between the price marked in the book and the price you have to pay for materials and workmanship show something in the shape of profit?-Yes, undoubtedly.
2270. Then how do you reconcile that with your previous statement, that there is really no profit upon your hosiery?-I don"t think I meant to say that there really was not a profit. What I meant to say was, that, as a rule we would be very well pleased, on an average of all our hosiery goods, just to get what we pay for them. Of course, if you take out a special article here and there, the rule might not hold good; but I think, on the whole, you will find the result to be as I stated.
2271. Do you make any distinction, in your statement with regard to profits, between those cases where an article has been made for you and those in which it has been purchased by you?-I think, as a rule, the articles which we purchase or exchange over the counter are generally sold by us just for what we have paid for them. The others we have a good deal more trouble about. The raw material has to be ordered, and the money paid for it pretty soon; and then it has to be given out, and these accounts kept, and the articles have to be dressed. In fact we have three or four times the trouble about articles of that description which we have with regard to articles that we buy in exchange.
2272. Do you make that profit upon the goods made to your order, by charging a higher price to your customer in the south, or by paying a smaller rate to the women who knit for you?-The rate we pay the work-women here depends on what the other dealers in town are paying. I suppose we all pay much about the same rates.
2273. But I don"t see how the same articles if made by one of your own work-women, can be charged at a different price to your customer in the south from what it would be if it were purchased by you across the counter?-As I have said, we have much more trouble with it.
2274. But the customer in the south fixes the price; and you cannot give articles that are really the same in quality at a different price, in consequence of the way in which they have come into your hands?-No; but on some articles we must have less profit than on others, and we must just make the one balance the other.
2275. But your customer would object to take two identical articles at different prices?-No doubt he would; but such articles as these black shawls we never buy over the counter. In fact I don"t think I ever did buy one in that way; they are always made to order. We bring in the raw material, and the women knit it up.
The material of which these black shawls are made is not Shetland wool. The women don"t have it. Of course they could get it if they chose to buy it in the shops: we would sell it to them just the same as anything else.
2276. Do you purchase stockings?-Yes.
2277. You don"t have them made?-No; they are all bought over the counter.