2837. May there be 2s.?-I cannot say exactly. Perhaps if they come with a shawl for which they are to get 8s. or 10s., they may get 1s. or 2s. upon it, but if they did not ask it, they would not get it.
2838. The understanding is that you pay them goods?-Yes.
2839. Are you often asked to give some money?-Very seldom; but whenever they ask for money, they get it, or any other thing I have in the shop.
2840. Can you explain how women who knit for you support themselves if they only get soft goods and tea for their knitting?- There are very few of them who do not do other work. There may be a few who do nothing but knit, but the greater part of the girls and women who employ themselves at knitting have other work to do besides. Some of them sew slop shirts for the agents shops, and various other things.
2841. These are required for the men who go to the whale-fishing?-Yes. [Produces day-book.] The [Page 63]
details of the goods sent south are all there. It is only the amount that is posted into the ledger.
2842. What would be the cost of producing this one dozen socks [showing]?-They were bought with barter for exactly the same value of goods as is charged for them there. I have also to be at the expense of dressing them and packing them, and then perhaps lying out of my money for twelve months.
2843. Then you dress them for nothing?-I must dress them for nothing.
2844. Is not that a loss to you?-Yes.
2845. And you must pay yourself for that out of the profit on the goods which you give for them?-Yes.
2846. Is that a common thing in your trade?-I believe it is. Of course there are some of the articles on which there is a profit.
2847. I see here "One brown half hap shawl, 3s. 9d.:" would there be a profit upon that?-There would not be much; perhaps there would be 8d. on it.
2848. "One large hap, 18s.:" would you have a profit on that?- Yes; I might have about 2s. That article was made specially to order.
2849. Was it made with, your own wool?-Yes.
2850. "One white hap, 9s. 6d.?"-There might be about 1s. on that hap.
2851. Was it bought over the counter for goods?-I think that one was made upon an order; but it was paid for by me in goods.
2852. There is another one at 9s. 6d.?-That is one of the same size and of the same colour.
2853. Suppose that 9s. 6d. hap had not been made to order, but had been bought over the counter and had been settled for with goods, what profit do you suppose would have been upon it apart from the goods?-I cannot say.
2854. Was 9s. 6d. the price which you paid to the party selling, or was it somewhat less?-It was 8s. 6d., and I would have a profit of a shilling on it.
2855. That was when it was knitted for you?-Yes.
2856. But I am speaking of articles which were bought by you: what profit would you have upon such an article then?-I could not tell unless I knew the kind of goods they were to take for it.
2857. But apart from the goods altogether, what would you give for a shawl that you would sell for 9s. 6d., if it was offered to you for sale?-Perhaps I might give 9s. 6d. worth or goods.
2858. Would that be the usual way of dealing?-Sometimes it is.
It depends very much upon the quality of the article. Sometimes we pay a dear price for them, and at other times we get them pretty cheap.
2859. Do you say that you generally buy an article of that kind at the price payable in goods for which you sell it to the merchant in the south?-Very often we do.
2860. Therefore you take no profit off your hosiery at all?-In some cases we do not. We cannot get it; we are glad to get what we pay in goods for them.
2861. So that the fact that you get your goods disposed of, is the inducement which you have in buying an article over the counter?-Yes.
2862. Is that one of the reasons why this system of dealing in goods continues?-I believe that is the very reason of it, and the scarcity of money.
2863. Do you approve of the system, or would you rather have cash payments?-I would rather have cash payments.
2864. In that case would you not have two profits instead of one?
You would make, sure of a profit on the hosiery, as you would be able to pay for it in cash?-Yes.
2865. And would you not have the same profit that you now have on the goods that you give for the hosiery?-I think we might.
2866. Would you not have a smaller profit upon them?-Of course, if we were selling for cash over the counter, we would try to cut the goods as low as we could.
2867. If you were selling your goods for cash over the counter instead of for hosiery, would you reduce your prices?-We could do that quite easily; because often we buy hosiery articles which lie on our hands for years and the moths get into them, and we get nothing for them at all.
2868. Therefore, in consequence of being paid in hosiery you must put a higher price upon the drapery goods and tea that you sell?-I do not put a higher price on them in consequence of that, because I generally charge the same price to those from whom I get hosiery as to those who pay me in cash.
2869. But if there was no such thing as paying hosiery with goods, you could sell your goods a little cheaper, because you must calculate upon a little loss on the hosiery?-Yes.
2870. So that both the customers who pay in hosiery, and those who pay in cash, are made to pay for a possible loss upon the hosiery?-Yes.
2871. In that way they are made to pay rather higher for their goods?-Yes.
2872. Does not that rather show that the system is a source of loss to the whole community?-There is not the slightest doubt about it, but what can we do until things are put upon a better footing.
2873. You would be glad to pay in cash if you could get your goods disposed of?-I would be very glad. For one thing, it would save us a little trouble.
2874. There is a complicated system of bookkeeping entailed by the present system?-There is.
2875. Have you had any balances to settle on lines or acknowledgments or vouchers?-No; I do not give any lines. I have always been against it.
2876. Did you give any formerly?-I gave them very rarely, unless when I could not help it.
2877. That is to say when a person came to sell hosiery to you and she did not want to take the whole price out in goods, you gave her a line?-Yes; if there was a balance then they would want a line for it.
2878. Would they not have preferred money?-They never asked for money; at least very seldom.
2879. How long, is it since you ceased to give these lines?-I have not given any lines for the last two years, or nearly that time, and I just gave them occasionally.
2880. What was your reason for laying down that rule?-Because there was such a great deal of bother about it. At a time when you were busy they would come in and pop down their lines and that is another secret in the line business. Some of the people like to sell shawls and get a line for them and then they go away and give that line to some other person, and that person comes in and orders goods of different kinds and prices them at the lowest rate we can give them for. Then, when they have screwed us down to the lowest price, they throw their line down upon the counter the same as if it were a bank-note.
2881. They do so, after having bargained and bothered with you to get you to reduce your prices, on the footing that they were to pay you in cash?-Yes; and of course you cannot refuse the line when it is offered to you. You must just take it and say nothing.
2882. Was that one of the reasons why you gave up giving lines?- It was not exactly for that I gave it up, but it was one of the reasons, because it was a great annoyance and bother. They would come in with the lines perhaps on mail-day, and bother us then.
2883. But a person might come in with a shawl on mail-day, and wish to take the value of it in goods. What would you do then?-I might tell them to come back again, and they would do it.
2884. Would they not do that if they had a line?-They would take care of that. They would get the goods they wanted, and then they would pop the line in.
2885. Then you think you are under an obligation to serve the people whenever they choose, if they have a line of yours?-Yes.