Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina,) hoped that such an important and serious proposition as this would not be hastily adopted; it was a very late moment for the introduction of new subjects. He expected the committee had got through the business, and would rise without discussing any thing further; at least, if gentlemen were determined on considering the present motion, he hoped they would delay for a few days, in order to give time for an examination of the subject. It was certainly a matter big with the most serious consequences to the State he represented; be did not think any one thing that had been discussed was so important to them, and the welfare of the Union, as the question now brought forward, but he was not prepared to enter on any argument, and therefore requested the motion might either be withdrawn or laid on the table.
Mr. SHERMAN (of Ct.) approved of the object of the motion, but he did not think this bill was proper to embrace the subject. He could not reconcile himself to the insertion of human beings as an article of duty, among goods, wares and merchandise. He hoped it would be withdrawn for the present, and taken up hereafter as an independent subject.
Mr. JACKSON, (of Geo.) observing the quarter from which this motion came, said it did not surprise him, though it might have that effect on others. He recollected that Virginia was an old settled State, and had her complement of slaves, so she was careless of recruiting her numbers by this means; the natural increase of her imported blacks were sufficient for their purpose; but he thought gentlemen ought to let their neighbors get supplied before they imposed such a burden upon the importation. He knew this business was viewed in an odious light to the Eastward, because the people were capable of doing their own work, and had no occasion for slaves; but gentlemen will have some feeling for others; they will not try to throw all the weight upon others, who have a.s.sisted in lightening their burdens; they do not wish to charge us for every comfort and enjoyment of life, and at the same time take away the means of procuring them; they do not wish to break us down at once.
He was convinced, from the inapt.i.tude of the motion, and the want of time to consider it, that the candor of the gentleman would induce him to withdraw it for the present; and if ever it came forward again, he hoped it would comprehend the white slaves as well as black, who were imported from all the goals of Europe; wretches, convicted of the most flagrant crimes, were brought in and sold without any duty whatever.
He thought that they ought to be taxed equal to the Africans, and had no doubt but the const.i.tutionality and propriety of such a measure was equally apparent as the one proposed.
Mr. TUCKER (of S.C.) thought it unfair to bring in such an important subject at a time when debate was almost precluded. The committee had gone through the impost bill, and the whole Union were impatiently expecting the result of their deliberations, the public must be disappointed and much revenue lost, or this question cannot undergo that full discussion which it deserves.
We have no right, said he, to consider whether the importation of slaves is proper or not; the Const.i.tution gives us no power on that point, it is left to the States to judge of that matter as they see fit. But if it was a business the gentleman was determined to discourage, he ought to have brought his motion forward sooner, and even then not have introduced it without previous notice. He hoped the committee would reject the motion, if it was not withdrawn; he was not speaking so much for the State he represented, as for Georgia, because the State of South Carolina had a prohibitory law, which could be renewed when its limitation expired.
Mr. PARKER (of Va.,) had ventured to introduce the subject after full deliberation, and did not like to withdraw it. Although the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. SHERMAN) had said, that they ought not to be enumerated with goods, wares, and merchandise, he believed they were looked upon by the African traders in this light; he knew it was degrading the human species to annex that character to them; but he would rather do this than continue the actual evil of importing slaves a moment longer. He hoped Congress would do all that lay in their power to restore to human nature its inherent privileges, and if possible wipe off the stigma which America labored under. The inconsistency in our principles, with which we are justly charged, should be done away; that we may shew by our actions the pure beneficence of the doctrine we held out to the world in our declaration of independence.
Mr. SHERMAN (of Ct.,) thought the principles of the motion and the principles of the bill were inconsistent; the principle of the bill was to raise revenue, the principle of the motion to correct a moral evil. Now, considering it as an object of revenue, it would be unjust, because two or three States would bear the whole burden, while he believed they bore their full proportion of all the rest. He was against receiving the motion into this bill, though he had no objection to taking it up by itself, on the principles of humanity and policy; and therefore would vote against it if it was not withdrawn.
Mr. AMES (of Ma.s.s.,) joined the gentleman last up. No one could suppose him favorable to slavery, he detested it from his soul, but he had some doubts whether imposing a duty on the importation, would not have the appearance of countenancing the practice; it was certainly a subject of some delicacy, and no one appeared to be prepared for the discussion, he therefore hoped the motion would be withdrawn.
Mr. LIVERMORE. Was not against the principle of the motion, but in the present case he conceived it improper. If negroes were goods, wares, or merchandise, they came within the t.i.tle of the bill; if they were not, the bill would be inconsistent; but if they are goods, wares or merchandise, the 5 per cent ad valorem, will embrace the importation; and the duty of 5 per cent is nearly equal to 10 dollars per head, so there is no occasion to add it even on the score of revenue.
Mr. JACKSON (of Ga.,) said it was the fashion of the day, to favor the liberty of slaves; he would not go into a discussion of the subject, but he believed it was capable of demonstration that they were better off in their present situation, than they would be if they were manumitted; what are they to do if they are discharged? Work for a living? Experience has shewn us they will not. Examine what is become of those in Maryland, many of them have been set free in that State; did they turn themselves to industry and useful pursuits? No, they turn out common pickpockets, petty larceny villains; and is this mercy, forsooth, to turn them into a way in which they must lose their lives,--for where they are thrown upon the world, void of property and connections, they cannot get their living but by pilfering. What is to be done for compensation? Will Virginia set all her negroes free? Will they give up the money they cost them, and to whom? When this practice comes to be tried there, the sound of liberty will lose those charms which make it grateful to the ravished ear.
But our slaves are not in a worse situation than they were on the coast of Africa; it is not uncommon there for the parents to sell their children in peace; and in war the whole are taken and made slaves together. In these cases it is only a change of one slavery for another; and are they not better here, where they have a master bound by the ties of interest and law to provide for their support and comfort in old age, or infirmity, in which, if they were free, they would sink under the pressure of woe for want of a.s.sistance.
He would say nothing of the partiality of such a tax, it was admitted by the avowed friends of the measure; Georgia in particular would be oppressed. On this account it would be the most odious tax Congress could impose.
Mr. SCHUREMAN (of N.J.) hoped the gentleman would withdraw his motion, because the present was not the time or place for introducing the business; he thought it had better be brought forward in the House, as a distinct proposition. If the gentleman persisted in having the question determined, he would move the previous question if he was supported.
Mr. MADISON, (of Va.) I cannot concur with gentlemen who think the present an improper time or place to enter into a discussion of the proposed motion; if it is taken up in a separate view, we shall do the same thing at a greater expense of time. But the gentlemen say that it is improper to connect the two objects, because they do not come within the t.i.tle of the bill. But this objection may be obviated by accommodating the t.i.tle to the contents; there may be some inconsistency in combining the ideas which gentlemen have expressed, that is, considering the human race as a species of property; but the evil does not arise from adopting the clause now proposed, it is from the importation to which it relates. Our object in enumerating persons on paper with merchandise, is to prevent the practice of actually treating them as such, by having them, in future, forming part of the cargoes of goods, wares, and merchandise to be imported into the United States. The motion is calculated to avoid the very evil intimated by the gentleman. It has been said that this tax will be partial and oppressive: but suppose a fair view is taken of this subject, I think we may form a different conclusion. But if it be partial or oppressive, are there not many instances in which we have laid taxes of this nature? Yet are they not thought to be justified by national policy? If any article is warranted on this account, how much more are we authorized to proceed on this occasion? The dictates of humanity, the principles of the people, the national safety and happiness, and prudent policy requires it of us; the const.i.tution has particularly called our attention to it--and of all the articles contained in the bill before us, this is one of the last I should be willing to make a concession upon so far as I was at liberty to go, according to the terms of the const.i.tution or principles of justice--I would not have it understood that my zeal would carry me to disobey the inviolable commands of either.
I understood it had been intimated, that the motion was inconsistent or unconst.i.tutional. I believe, sir, my worthy colleague has formed the words with a particular reference to the Const.i.tution; any how, so far as the duty is expressed, it perfectly accords with that instrument; if there are any inconsistencies in it, they may be rectified; I believe the intention is well understood, but I am far from supposing the diction improper. If the description of the persons does not accord with the ideas of the gentleman from Georgia, (Mr.
JACKSON,) and his idea is a proper one for the committee to adopt, I see no difficulty in changing the phraseology.
I conceive the Const.i.tution, in this particular, was formed in order that the government, whilst it was restrained from laying a total prohibition, might be able to give some testimony of the sense of America, with respect to the African trade. We have liberty to impose a tax or duty upon the importation of such persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit; and this liberty was granted, I presume, upon two considerations--the first was, that until the time arrived when they might abolish the importation of slaves, they might have an opportunity of evidencing their sentiments, on the policy and humanity of such a trade; the other was that they might be taxed in due proportion with other articles imported; for if the possessor will consider them as property, of course they are of value and ought to be paid for. If gentlemen are apprehensive of oppression from the weight of the tax, let them make an estimate of its proportion, and they will find that it very little exceeds five per cent ad valorem, so that they will gain very little by having them thrown into that ma.s.s of articles, whilst by selecting them in the manner proposed, we shall fulfil the prevailing expectation of our fellow citizens, and perform our duty in executing the purposes of the Const.i.tution. It is to be hoped that by expressing a national disapprobation of this trade, we may destroy it, and save ourselves from reproaches, and our posterity the imbecility ever attendant on a country filled with slaves.
I do not wish to say anything harsh, to the hearing of gentlemen who entertain different sentiments from me, or different sentiments from those I represent; but if there is any one point in which it is clearly the policy of this nation, so far as we const.i.tutionally can, to vary the practice of obtaining under some of the State governments, it is this; but it is certain a majority of the States are opposed to this practice, therefore, upon principle, we ought to discountenance it as far as is in our power.
If I was not afraid of being told that the representatives of the several States, are the best able to judge of what is proper and conducive to their particular prosperity, I should venture to say that it is as much the interest of Georgia and South Carolina, as of any in the Union. Every addition they receive to their number of slaves, tends to weaken them and renders them less capable of self defence. In case of hostilities with foreign nations, they will be the means of inviting attack instead of repelling invasion. It is a necessary duty of the general government to protect every part of the empire against danger, as well internal as external; every thing therefore which tends to increase this danger, though it may be a local affair, yet if it involves national expense or safety, becomes of concern to every part of the Union, and is a proper subject for the consideration of those charged with the general administration of the government. I hope, in making these observations, I shall not be understood to mean that a proper attention ought not to be paid to the local opinions and circ.u.mstances of any part of the United States, or that the particular representatives are not best able to judge of the sense of their immediate const.i.tuents.
If we examine the proposed measure by the agreement there is between it, and the existing State laws, it will show us that it is patronized by a very respectable part of the Union. I am informed that South Carolina has prohibited the importation of slaves for several years yet to come; we have the satisfaction then of reflecting that we do nothing more than their own laws do at this moment. This is not the case with one State. I am sorry that her situation is such as to seem to require a population of this nature, but it is impossible in the nature of things, to consult the national good without doing what we do not wish to do, to some particular part. Perhaps gentlemen contend against the introduction of the clause, on too slight grounds. If it does not conform with the t.i.tle of the bill, alter the latter; if it does not conform to the precise terms of the Const.i.tution, amend it.
But if it will tend to delay the whole bill, that perhaps will be the best reason for making it the object of a separate one. If this is the sense of the committee I shall submit.
Mr. GERRY (of Ma.s.s.) thought all duties ought to be laid as equal as possible. He had endeavored to enforce this principle yesterday, but without the success he wished for, he was bound by the principles of justice therefore to vote for the proposition; but if the committee were desirous of considering the subject fully by itself, he had no objection, but he thought when gentlemen laid down a principle, they ought to support it generally.
Mr. BURKE (of S.C.) said, gentlemen were contending for nothing; that the value of a slave, averaged about 80, and the duty on that sum at five per cent, would be ten dollars, as congress could go no farther than that sum, he conceived it made no difference whether they were enumerated or left in the common ma.s.s.
Mr. MADISON, (of Va.) If we contend for nothing, the gentlemen who are opposed to us do not contend for a great deal; but the question is, whether the five per cent ad valorem, on all articles imported, will have any operation at all upon the introduction of slaves, unless we make a particular enumeration on this account; the collector may mistake, for he would not presume to apply the term goods, wares, and merchandise to any person whatsoever. But if that general definition of goods, wares and merchandise are supposed to include African Slaves, why may we not particularly enumerate them, and lay the duty pointed out by the Const.i.tution, which, as gentlemen tell us, is no more than five per cent upon their value; this will not increase the burden upon any, but it will be that manifestation of our sense, expected by our const.i.tuents, and demanded by justice and humanity.
Mr. BLAND (of Va.) had no doubt of the propriety or good policy of this measure. He had made up his mind upon it, he wished had never been introduced into America; but if it was impossible at this time to cure the evil, he was very willing to join in any measures that would prevent its extending farther. He had some doubts whether the prohibitory laws of the States were not in part repealed. Those who had endeavored to discountenance this trade, by laying a duty on the importation, were prevented by the Const.i.tution from continuing such regulation, which declares, that no State shall lay any impost or duties on imports. If this was the case, and he suspected pretty strongly that it was, the necessity of adopting the proposition of his colleague was now apparent.
Mr. SHERMAN (of Ct.) said, the Const.i.tution does not consider these persons as a species of property; it speaks of them as persons, and says, that a tax or duty may be imposed on the importation of them into any State which shall permit the same, but they have no power to prohibit such importation for twenty years. But Congress have power to declare upon what terms persons coming into the United States shall be ent.i.tled to citizenship; the rule of naturalization must however be uniform. He was convinced there were others ought to be regulated in this particular, the importation of whom was of an evil tendency, he meant convicts particularly. He thought that some regulation respecting them was also proper; but it being a different subject, it ought to be taken up in a different manner.
Mr. MADISON (of Va.) was led to believe, from the observation that had fell from the gentlemen, that it would be best to make this the subject of a distinct bill: he therefore wished his colleague would withdraw his motion, and move in the house for leave to bring in a bill on the same principles.
Mr. PARKER (of Va.) consented to withdraw his motion, under a conviction that the house was fully satisfied of its propriety. He knew very well that these persons were neither goods, nor wares, but they were treated as articles of merchandise. Although he wished to get rid of this part of his property, yet he should not consent to deprive other people of theirs by any act of his without their consent.
The committee rose, reported progress, and the house adjourned.
FEBRUARY 11th, 1790.
Mr. LAWRANCE (of New York,) presented an address from the society of Friends, in the City of New York; in which they set forth their desire of co-operating with their Southern brethren.
Mr. HARTLEY (of Penn.) then moved to refer the address of the annual a.s.sembly of Friends, held at Philadelphia, to a committee; he thought it a mark of respect due so numerous and respectable a part of the community.
Mr. WHITE (of Va.) seconded the motion.
Mr. SMITH, (of S.C.) However respectable the pet.i.tioners may be, I hope gentlemen will consider that others equally respectable are opposed to the object which is aimed at, and are ent.i.tled to an opportunity of being heard before the question is determined. I flatter myself gentlemen will not press the point of commitment to-day, it being contrary to our usual mode of procedure.
Mr. FITZSIMONS (of Penn.) If we were now about to determine the final question, the observation of the gentleman from South Carolina would apply; but, sir, the present question does not touch upon the merits of the case; it is merely to refer the memorial to a committee, to consider what is proper to be done; gentlemen, therefore, who do not mean to oppose the commitment to-morrow, may as well agree to it to-day, because it will tend to save the time of the house.
Mr. JACKSON (of Geo.) wished to know why the second reading was to be contended for to-day, when it was diverting the attention of the members from the great object that was before the committee of the whole? Is it because the feelings of the Friends will be hurt, to have their affair conducted in the usual course of business? Gentlemen who advocate the second reading to-day, should respect the feelings of the members who represent that part of the Union which is princ.i.p.ally to be affected by the measure. I believe, sir, that the latter cla.s.s consists of as useful and as good citizens as the pet.i.tioners, men equally friends to the revolution, and equally susceptible of the refined sensations of humanity and benevolence. Why then should such particular attention be paid to them, for bringing forward a business of questionable policy? If Congress are disposed to interfere in the importation of slaves, they can take the subject up without advisers, because the Const.i.tution expressly mentions all the power they can exercise on the subject.
Mr. SHERMAN (of Conn.) suggested the idea of referring it to a committee, to consist of a member from each State, because several States had already made some regulations on this subject. The sooner the subject was taken up he thought it would be the better.
Mr. PARKER, (of Va.) I hope, Mr. Speaker, the pet.i.tion of these respectable people, will be attended to with all the readiness the importance of its object demands; and I cannot help expressing the pleasure I feel in finding so considerable a part of the community attending to matters of such momentous concern to the future prosperity and happiness of the people of America. I think it my duty, as a citizen of the Union, to espouse their cause; and it is inc.u.mbent upon every member of this house to sift the subject well, and ascertain what can be done to restrain a practice so nefarious. The Const.i.tution has authorized us to levy a tax upon the importation of such persons as the States shall authorize to be admitted. I would willingly go to that extent; and if any thing further can be devised to discountenance the trade, consistent with the terms of the Const.i.tution, I shall cheerfully give it my a.s.sent and support.
Mr. MADISON, (of Va.) The gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr.
FITZSIMONS) has put this question on its proper ground. If gentlemen do not mean to oppose the commitment to-morrow, they may as well acquiesce in it to-day; and I apprehend gentlemen need not be alarmed at any measure it is likely Congress should take; because they will recollect, that the Const.i.tution secures to the individual States the right of admitting, if they think proper, the importation of slaves into their own territory, for eighteen years yet unexpired; subject, however, to a tax, if Congress are disposed to impose it, of not more than ten dollars on each person.
The pet.i.tion, if I mistake not, speaks of artifices used by self-interested persons to carry on this trade; and the pet.i.tion from New York states a case that may require the consideration of Congress.
If anything is within the Federal authority to restrain such violation of the rights of nations, and of mankind, as is supposed to be practised in some parts of the United States, it will certainly tend to the interest and honor of the community to attempt a remedy, and is a proper subject for our discussion. It may be, that foreigners take advantage of the liberty afforded them by the American trade, to employ our slipping in the slave trade between Africa and the West Indies, when they are restrained from employing their own by restrictive laws of their nation. If this is the case, is there any person of humanity that would not wish to prevent them? Another consideration why we should commit the pet.i.tion is, that we may give no ground of alarm by a serious opposition, as if we were about to take measures that were unconst.i.tutional.
Mr. STONE (of Md.) feared that if Congress took any measures, indicative of an intention to interfere with the kind of property alluded to, it would sink it in value very considerably, and might be injurious to a great number of the citizens, particularly in the Southern States.
He thought the subject was of general concern, and that the pet.i.tioners had no more right to interfere will it than any other members of the community. It was an unfortunate circ.u.mstance, that it was the property of sects to imagine they understood the rights of human nature better than all the world beside; and that they would, in consequence, be meddling with concerns in which they had nothing to do.
As the pet.i.tion relates to a subject of a general nature, it ought to lie on the table, as information; he would never consent to refer pet.i.tions, unless the pet.i.tioners were exclusively interested. Suppose there was a pet.i.tion to come before us from a society, praying us to be honest in our transactions, or that we should administer the Const.i.tution according to its intention--what would you do with a pet.i.tion of this kind? Certainly it would remain on your table. He would, nevertheless, not have it supposed, that the people had not a right to advise and give their opinion upon public measures; but he would not be influenced by that advice or opinion, to take up a subject sooner than the convenience of other business would admit.
Unless he changed his sentiments, he would oppose the commitment.
Mr. BURKE (of S.C.) thought gentlemen were paying attention to what did not deserve it. The men in the gallery had come here to meddle in a business with which they had nothing to do; they were volunteering it in the cause of others, who neither expected nor desired it. He had a respect for the body of Quakers, but, nevertheless, he did not believe they had more virtue, or religion, than other people, nor perhaps so much, if they were examined to the bottom, notwithstanding their outward pretences. If their pet.i.tion is to be noticed, Congress ought to wait till counter applications were made, and then they might have the subject more fairly before them. The rights of the Southern States ought not to be threatened, and their property endangered, to please people who were to be unaffected by the consequences.
Mr. HARTLEY (of Penn.) thought the memorialists did not deserve to be aspersed for their conduct, if influenced by motives of benignity, they solicited the Legislature of the Union to repel, as far as in their power, the increase of a licentious traffic. Nor do they merit censure, because their behavior has the appearance of more morality than other people"s. But it is not for Congress to refuse to hear the applications of their fellow citizens, while those applications contain nothing unconst.i.tutional or offensive. What is the object of the address before us? It is intended to bring before this House a subject of great importance to the cause of humanity; there are certain facts to be enquired into, and the memorialists are ready to give all the information in their power; they are waiting, at a great distance from their homes, and wish to return; if, then, it will be proper to commit the pet.i.tion to-morrow, it will be equally proper to-day, for it is conformable to our practice, beside, it will tend to their conveniency.
Mr. LAWRANCE (of N.Y.) The gentleman from South Carolina says, the pet.i.tioners are of a society not known in the laws or Const.i.tution.
Sir, in all our acts, as well as in the Const.i.tution, we have noticed this Society; or why is it that we admit them to affirm, in cases where others are called upon to swear? If we pay this attention to them, in one instance, what good reason is there for contemning them in another? I think the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. STONE,) carries his apprehensions too far, when he fears that negro-property will fall in value, by the suppression of the slave-trade; not that I suppose it immediately in the power of Congress to abolish a traffic which is a disgrace to human nature; but it appears to me, that, if the importation was crushed, the value of a slave would be increased instead of diminished; however, considerations of this kind have nothing to do with the present question; gentlemen may acquiesce in the commitment of the memorial, without pledging themselves to support its object.
Mr. JACKSON, (of Ga.) I differ much in opinion with the gentleman last up. I apprehend if, through the interference of the general government, the slave trade was abolished, it would evince to the people a disposition toward a total emanc.i.p.ation, and they would hold their property in jeopardy. Any extraordinary attention of Congress to this pet.i.tion may have, in some degree, a similar effect. I would beg to ask those, then, who are so desirous of freeing the negroes, if they have funds sufficient to pay for them? If they have, they may come forward on that business with some propriety; but, if they have not, they should keep themselves quiet, and not interfere with a business in which they are not interested. They may as well come forward, and solicit Congress to interdict the West India trade, because it is injurious to the morals of mankind; from thence we import rum, which has a debasing influence upon the consumer. But, sir, is the whole morality of the United States confined to the Quakers? Are they the only people whose feelings are to be consulted on this occasion? Is it to them we owe our present happiness? Was it they who formed the Const.i.tution? Did they, by their arms, or contributions, establish our independence? I believe they were generally opposed to that measure. Why, then, on their application, shall we injure men, who, at the risk of their lives and fortunes, secured to the community their liberty and property? If Congress pay any uncommon degree of attention to their pet.i.tion, it will furnish just ground of alarm to the Southern States. But, why do these men set themselves up, in such a particular manner, against slavery? Do they understand the rights of mankind, and the disposition of Providence better than others? If they were to consult that Book which claims our regard, they will find that slavery is not only allowed, but commended. Their Saviour, who possessed more benevolence and commiseration than they pretend to, has allowed of it. And if they fully examine the subject, they will find that slavery has been no novel doctrine since the days of Cain. But be these things as they may, I hope the House will order the pet.i.tion to lie on the table, in order to prevent alarming our Southern brethren.