11,857. Are you aware that complaints are made with regard to the landlord"s claim to have one-third of the oil?-Yes; there have been complaints made. I had a share in the whales that were driven ash.o.r.e, and I wrote to the Board of Trade about it, but it seemed they could do nothing; at least they did not choose to do anything in the matter.
11,858. Were the whales of the bottle-nosed kind?-No. They are known by the name of caain, or driving whales.
11,859. Did the Board of Trade decline to interfere on the ground that the Crown had no interest in the kind of whale that was driven ash.o.r.e?-Yes; they said the Crown had no interest in that kind of whales. We thought, as the Government claim the foresh.o.r.es and beaches, the proprietors had no right to claim any share of the oil, because the blubber is never taken above high-water mark Most of the whales were killed at sea, and dragged ash.o.r.e, and we thought the fishermen should have the same right to beach whales as to beach cod or ling, or anything else under the Act regulating the fishings.
11,860. Did you obtain any information at that time, as to the grounds upon which the landlords" claim for one-third of the whales was based?-I did not ascertain that they had any claim for it, other than the custom of the country, in the same way as they claim right to bind the fishermen to fish for them, and to no other.
The Board of Trade did not say that the landlords had any right to claim the whales; they advised me to go to law and see; but I did not think it advisable to incur the expense of raising an action on my own account.
11,861. Have you found your trade hampered in any degree by the fishermen feeling under an obligation to deal for their supplies with the merchants by whom they are employed?-I have said already, that if the fishermen were paid oftener, more money would be circulated, and trade would be more divided; but it would all depend upon whether the fishermen were in debt or not, because we could not expect the fish-curers to pay those men who were in debt to them.
11,862. Have you found fishermen representing to you that they would purchase goods at your shop if they were not obliged to go where they could get credit?-I have occasionally heard such things here, but not very often.
11,863. Perhaps you have suspected that oftener than it has been expressed to you?-Yes.
11,864. A man does not always speak about his reasons for dealing with a particular merchant?-I don"t think he does; but I don"t think it fair if I pay ready money for such things as I buy, such as oysters and winkles, that others should not do the same to a greater extent than they do. I don"t mean to say that they should cash for everything, but I think they should settle oftener.
11,865. You think the fishermen should be able to have a little money in their hands at times, instead of having it only once a year, in January?-I think so.
11,866. And even then, I suppose, they don"t always have to get money?-I don"t think they have.
11,867. Do you think that, upon the whole, your payments to fishermen are repaid to you?-Not at once. They may take the money home and come with it again, but it is not handed over to me at the time when the men get it. I have paid 40 in one week for sh.e.l.l-fish, without drawing more than 10.
11,868. Do your books show that?-No.
11,869. These were all cash transactions?-Yes.
11,870. But I suppose you may sometimes have paid 40 out in a week and drawn 30 of it back?-No. I never drew 30.
* Mr. Harcus afterwards sent a letter in which he said-
"Finding that exception has been taken by certain of my neighbours to a part of my evidence before the Truck Commission, I wish to say in explanation, that when the question was put whether I would approve in all cases of daily or weekly settlements, several difficulties occurred to my mind, and the want of proficiency in arithmetic among the fishermen was one of them, and not the only one, as is being attempted to be made to appear. I hope my words will bear out this idea. If my memory serves me right I gave as one difficulty the great distance between the fishing-ground and curer"s headquarters; and I was having in consideration the extra expense that would be incurred if provision were made at out-stations for daily or weekly settlements, and the probability of an extra hand being required whose wages would have to come off the fisherman.
"With regard to my statements as to the proportion of Shetland fishermen who would be able to settle quickly by having pa.s.s-books, I was considering that it would be the duty of the men to divide their own shares, and to make all calculations ready for entering in their several pa.s.s-books, and that where there were boys forming part of a crew, and having fractional shares, very few indeed of the men could divide such shares. I think I also stated that I was speaking of those I had dealt with; but, of course, I could not be understood to speak of anything further than my experience went.
"I was also having in view that should a crew only require a few minutes to settle, yet if many crews came up at one time, as the tides and nature of the fishing would necessitate, some of them would have to wait several hours, which time could not possibly be spared, as during the busy part of the season the men can only allow themselves from four to five hours out of the twenty-four for sleep. Neither do I think that pa.s.s-books can expedite settlement much as some say. They can do little more than save the time required to head a printed form of account, say three or four minutes for each crew; but of course, are indispensable for other purposes.
"It will be seen from my evidence that the oftener curers settle with their men the better for my trade; and therefore, wishing to guard against having my mind influenced by selfish motive, I stated honestly what objections to daily or weekly settlements occurred to my mind at the moment.
"I trust it will be seen from my evidence as to my own practice that I approve of making settlements as often as practicable, in order to teach the people self-reliance and provident habits, and also to give them a chance to lay out their earnings to the best advantage.
" I have no wish to disparage this people. On the contrary, I think they deserve very great praise for being what they are under very unfavourable circ.u.mstances, and if this were the proper place I would have great pleasure in saying a good deal on this point; but though their general intelligence is perhaps superior to that of the same cla.s.s in any other part of the country, I have not met with much proficiency in arithmetic among old and middle-aged men especially; and it is not difficult to see from the evidence the small amount of their experience in handling accounts, and the want of inducements to cultivate the art of book-keeping."
Scalloway, January 22, 1872, Rev. NICOL NICOLSON, examined.
11,871. You are a clergyman of the Independent Church in Scalloway?-I am. I have been twenty-two years here, first as missionary, and afterwards as pastor of a church.
11,872. Are your people mostly engaged in fishing?-Some of them are.
11,873. I suppose you are intimately acquainted with the condition of the fishing population of this district?-It appears to me by this time that I am not so well acquainted with it as I thought, because I have been hearing things coming out that I did not understand to be the case before the evidence was given.
11,874. Were you aware of the fact that very few fishermen received a large part of their earnings in money?-I understood that all of them who were out of debt got money from the merchants when they wanted it. I was once a fisherman myself, and that was the way in which I was dealt with. I did not think that in any of the shops here the men who had cash in the merchant"s hands, and who were in necessity for it would not have got it.
11,875. Do you not think it would be better for the fishermen to be paid for their fish more frequently than once a year?-There are certain boats that deliver their fish weekly, and certainly it would be better for the men in them to be paid weekly; but there are a great many of the fishermen employed in smacks, from which they do not come ash.o.r.e weekly, nor monthly.
11,876. Do you mean that the Faroe fishermen cannot be paid at short intervals?-I mean that those who fit out smacks and agree with men to fish on board of them for the season, cannot bring about a settlement with them until the end of the season.
11,877. But would it not be expedient for a man who is engaged in the home fishing, and who comes ash.o.r.e every two or three days, to have his money paid to him at shorter intervals than those at which he now gets it, so that he might use it at his own discretion?-It has come under my observation that many crews who were ready to fish had no boat nor lines until they went to a merchant who would supply them with them, and then they made an agreement with that merchant to fish for him. They are in debt before they begin, and how can they be paid until the merchant sees his boat and lines clear?-Until they are cleared, he cannot afford to pay the men.
11,878. But in other trades, merchants frequently have to pay weekly wages to the men they employ, and take their risk of the market?-They take their risk of the market as it is; but if a merchant has due to him the whole value of the boat and lines, he cannot pay money down to the men and allow them to go away with it. He must keep it until he gets paid, or else he will be a poor man.
11,879. Would it not be within the power of the fishermen to purchase their own boats and lines?-They should do that, but I don"t find them doing it. I know of only one man here who has done it.
11,880. Do you think it is impossible for the ordinary run of fishermen to make as much money as would pay for their boat and lines?-Most of the fishermen hereabout can never do it, owing to the way they live and the small fishings they make. They are not very fit to go out except in fine weather; and then they have to maintain themselves on sh.o.r.e in coa.r.s.e weather.
11,881. How does the way in which they live prevent [Page 292]
them from being able to purchase boats and lines?-They are poor men; they have no capital; and they are neither fed nor clothed in such a way as to enable them to carry on the fishing properly. If any man will give them credit for a boat and lines they just hang on with him, and never make money, or catch fish from which money can be made. I know a number of boats that seem to do very little all the year round. The crews are mostly old, worn-out men, and some of them are perhaps not very provident at home. I never saw them fed and clothed like regular fishermen; and you cannot expect them to go to sea properly.
11,882. What do you mean when you say that they are not fed and clothed like regular fishermen?-I mean like fishermen on the coast of Scotland, or in any other place.
11,883. Have you had some experience among fishermen on the coast of Scotland or elsewhere than here?-Not on the coast of Scotland, further than that I have gone among them, and spoken with them, and seen how they get on. I have seen them go off almost every day in winter, unless when there was a very extra breeze of wind.
11,884. Have they better boats in these places?-Yes; they have good boats, and they are well-clad, well-fed, healthy men; while there are men going on board the boats here who I believe, these other men would not take on board with them, owing to their want of strength.
11,885. You are not speaking of the ordinary run of Shetland fishermen just now?-I am speaking of the Scalloway men. I understand that in some of the islands, such as Burra, there are a cla.s.s of very good men; but here there are no men staying ash.o.r.e, except young boys and old men. All the rest go into the merchant service. A few go to Faroe, but only a few.
11,886. It is among these people who live in Scalloway that your experience chiefly lies?-Yes; it is to them I refer when I speak of the people about here.
11,887. So that when you are speaking about the advantages or disadvantages of a change, your remarks rather apply to the people of Scalloway than to the Shetland fishermen in general?-I say that most of the fishermen with whom I am acquainted in Scalloway, except one boat"s crew, are such men as never do make earnings. They cannot get their boat and lines except on credit, and the merchants who give them out on credit require to keep what little fish they catch until these are paid, while the poor men are always asking for further advances on which to live. Therefore the men cannot have any money; and I don"t blame the merchants, because the men still continue indebted to them.
11,888. Do you entertain that opinion with regard to other fishermen, strong young men, who are able to make better fishings than those you are now speaking of?-I believe there are such men in Burra, and perhaps even in Trondra, but I don"t know any such men in Scalloway who are inclined to go to the fishing. Strong young men there go elsewhere.
11,889. Could these strong young men in Burra and Trondra purchase their own boats?-I think they could.
11,890. And that you consider would be an advantage to any fisherman?-Yes, it would be an advantage but I question whether many of the young men in Burra would confine themselves to boat fishing.
11,891. Do you think the system of being paid only once a year has the effect of producing improvident habits among the men?-I don"t know. I was once a fisherman myself, and paid once a year, and I liked it well enough, for if I wanted money sooner I got it; but if I could do without it, I was pleased to get a larger sum at one time, and have it in reserve.
11,892. There is no doubt that, to many men, it may be an advantage to get a large sum paid at once; but, looking at the generality of the people that you live among, do you not think it would be better for them to have their money in their hand, paid to them every fortnight or every month? May they not, under the present system, run up larger accounts with the merchant who supplies them than they can afford to pay?-I am not aware that money is forthcoming at all from the fishing carried on in these boats. I have already said that I don"t think the boats are fished so as to clear money, and consequently the men cannot have money.
They are generally very poor and in debt.
11,893. Do you mean that almost all, the men in Scalloway are so?-All the fishermen that are in the boats, except one boat"s crew that stands on a different footing from the others.
11,894. Do you ascribe that to the system which prevails here, or to any fault on the part of the men?-I can scarcely ascribe it to the fault of the men; I would say it was their misfortune. They are old and some of them infirm, and they cannot fish like stout, healthy men.
11,895. Have many cases come under your observation in which women who knit have been in distress for want of food in consequence of the way in which the hosiery is paid for?- I have not generally heard them blame the hosiery system for it exactly, but just the want of general employment.
11,896. I suppose most of the women here knit more or less?- Yes; I believe the greater part of them do.