16,550. Then you have refused to suggest a man in such a case?- Yes; if a man was not a good hand, or the like of that, I would tell the master so, and then he could take him or not as he chose.
16,551. But have you ever said to a man when he came applying for a berth, "I cannot take you," or "I won"t take you, before the captain?"-Not to my recollection.
16,552. Then a man might as well go to the master at once as apply through you for an engagement?-The master comes to the place to select his own men, and some of them go on board and apply to him themselves.
16,553. If you make no selection at all beforehand, is there any use for them applying to an agent? Might the men not go to the master at once and be selected by him, without your intervention at all?- They might; but the master wants an agent to a.s.sist him in collecting his men.
16,554. What a.s.sistance does the agent give him?-He helps him in engaging them. For instance, the articles are all filled up by the agent, except the names, before going to the Custom House, so as to facilitate business there. Perhaps there may be a number of ships lying here at one time, and there are a number of arrangements to be made. The agent carries through all that, and the master has merely to attend at the Custom House and see the thing completed.
16,555. That is to say, you give the master certain a.s.sistance after he has selected the men?-After he has selected the men we take down their names, their places of birth, and so on, and enter them in the articles.
16,556. But before he selects the men the agent has done nothing?-No further than that if a man comes wanting an engagement, the agent will tell him that the master will be on sh.o.r.e at a certain time, and the men are told to be there.
16,557. Is that the statement which is invariably made the men applying for berths to you, without exception?-Yes, invariably; except it is a man that I know is of no use and then I may tell him that I can say nothing for him.
16,558. How many men out of 100 applicants might you say that to?-Not many. I never turn any away if the man chooses to go and take his chance; but if I know that the man is not a suitable hand, I tell him that he cannot expect me to recommend him. But there are very few men of that kind.
16,559. Do you remember any cases in 1871 in which you intimated to the men that they were of no use, and that they would not get a berth?-I don"t recollect any.
16,560. Do you remember any particular cases of that kind in the year previous?-I do not recollect any.
16,561. Have you ever intimated to any man who was owing you an account that he was of no use, and would not get a berth?-No, not to my knowledge.
16,562. In what way do you know that a man is of [Page 422] no use?-By being told by masters that he was of no use.
16,563. Have you a general knowledge of the men"s abilities from their reputation?-Yes, from what I hear from the sailors who have gone in the same ship; or if the master has found them not to be suitable hands, he tells me not to send them to him again. But there are very few instances of that kind; perhaps not one out of 100 or 200.
16,564. Was that the mode of selecting the men which was in use five or six years ago?-They were all selected in the same way by the master; he was always present.
16,565. But had not the agents more power in selecting the men some time ago than they have exercised lately?-Not so far as we were concerned. I cannot speak for others.
16,566. When a man went to another agent for employment, being in debt to Hay & Co., was it usual for that agent to enter the men"s debt to you in his books, in order to obtain a settlement of it for you?-Not lately; but sometimes it has been done.
16,567. Was it done on the application of Messrs. Hay?-Yes.
16,568. Does the captain apply to you for some opinion as to the qualifications of the men?-Yes, if he does not know them himself.
16,569. You have told me that you have generally made yourself pretty well acquainted with the men"s abilities?-Yes.
16,570. Then I suppose only a certain proportion of each crew shipped at Lerwick consists of men who have been in that captain"s employment previously, perhaps one third?-Sometimes they had almost all been in the same ship before, but they changed agents occasionally. Perhaps sometimes one half of them might re-ship.
16,571. But very often the captain would secure one half or one third of new hands?-Yes.
16,572. In that case you must be consulted a good deal about the qualifications of the men?-Yes. I tell the master about them, so far as I know; and in some cases, perhaps if he ships a man, that man may be able to recommend another to him.
16,573. But I suppose the captain attaches considerable weight to your recommendation?-Perhaps he does.
16,574. Have you any reason to doubt that he does?-I have not. I would not recommend a man if I did not know him to be a good hand.
16,575. Has a captain ever refused to follow your recommendation and to take a man whom you had recommended?-When he had plenty of men of his own, of course he would take no others than them.
16,576. But when he was in want of men, did he generally follow your recommendation?-Sometimes I have seen him in doubt between two or three men whom I have recommended, and he selected any one of the three that he liked himself.
16,577. If you recommended one man in preference to another, have you ever seen him take a man of whom you disapproved?- In some instances I have seen him take a man who had been recommended to him by another that he had engaged, instead of a man that I could recommend. The man had sailed with him before, and he recommended another man with whom he was acquainted, and the captain engaged him.
16,578. In that case he might suppose that the shipmate had a more intimate knowledge of the man"s abilities than you could have from hearsay?-That is very likely.
16,579. But if there were no such influences as that, have you ever known the captain refusing to follow your recommendation?-No.
If he asked me for good man, and I could bring him one and did it, he took him.
16,580. Has any captain complained that you, or those acting for Messrs. Hay & Co., had suggested men who were not preferable on account of their abilities, but who were owing accounts, or were likely to incur accounts to Messrs. Hay?-It is very seldom that I had the chance of recommending men who were in debt to us. I never studied that in recommending a man to a master.
16,581. Was that because you had so few accounts with the men?-We generally had accounts with them all when they went out but there were a few that we had no accounts with.
16,582. Have you any doubt that the men were under the impression or had an understanding that they ought to get their supplies and their outfit, to a certain extent at least, from the agent who engaged them?-They expect that the agent will supply them.
16,583. But does the agent expect that they will give him their custom?-There is no force in that case.
16,584. I am not saying there is force, but does the agent expect that?-We must provide for it, whether they want it or not.
16,585. What must you provide?-We must provide clothing for the men in case they want it.
16,586. But does the agent expect that the men whom he engages for the Greenland whale fishing will come to him for their outfit, or part of it?-Yes, because they had generally done so; but they have never been forced to do so.
16,587. I am not saying that they are forced, but does the agent expect that?-Of course he does, and he is prepared for it.
16,588. Do the men know that he expects that?-I daresay they do.
16,589. Was not that the princ.i.p.al consideration in inducing the agents to undertake to carry on the agency?-I cannot say what it was in former times, because there was an agency in the house before my time, and I came into it after it was established.
16,590. But is it not the case that you are giving up the business because the 21/2 per cent. commission is an insufficient remuneration for your trouble?-Yes, it is insufficient for the trouble we have; and I daresay if it had not been for the circ.u.mstance that the present masters are sons and. grandsons to masters who had been coming to the house long ago, we would have given it up sooner.
16,591. Have accounts for outfit and supplies for men employed in the Greenland fishing become less in recent years than they were ten or a dozen years ago?-I daresay in some cases they have.
16,592. Is it not the case that they have done so upon the whole?- Yes, because there are not so many green hands taken now as there were then.
16,593. You have found it necessary to restrict your credits to them?-On the short voyages we have. A voyage of two months is not like one of five or six months.
16,594. You have therefore lost part of the profit which formerly accrued upon these agencies?-Of course if the outfits are less, the profits must be less.
16,595. Is that the reason why you have found it necessary to give up the business?-That is not the reason. It is because of the trouble we had with them. I believe we have perhaps sold as much to the men this year as we did when we had the agency.
16,596. Even when you had a great number of green hands?- There are not many green hands going now, because the outfits cannot be given to them. That has been the experience of the last few years.
16,597. But, apart from green hands, is not the amount of out-takes by these men less than it was ten or fifteen years ago?-With some men it is as much, and with others far less.
16,598. Do you think that upon the whole it is less?-I have not looked into that, and I could not be sure about it.