16,648. Were these notes taken in name of the man"s relations?- Yes; of his wife, or father, or sister, or brother.
16,649. Were they not sometimes taken in the name of the agent who was giving them supplies?-No; they were addressed to the agent, to be paid by him.
16,650. But were they not also taken in the name of the agent or of some of his clerks?-Not that I am aware of.
16,651. Was that never done by Hay & Co.?-Not to my recollection.
16,652. Would you be surprised to learn that it had been done in other houses in Lerwick?-It may have been done, but I cannot tell.
16,653. In the conversations you have with the men about their outfit or supplies, is it not usual to suggest what they should take, and where they should get it?-No. We ask them what they want; but sometimes, if it is a man we are doubtful about, we refuse to give him all that he asks.
16,654. But if it is a man you are not doubtful about, do you always ask him what he wants?-We have done that, but he knows what he wants without being asked, and he takes what is necessary.
16,655. Is there any other person here who wishes to make any further statement, or to tender additional evidence?-[No answer.]
Then I adjourn the sittings in this place.
KIRKWALL; THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 1872
THOMAS WILSON, examined.
16,656. I am a weaver in Kirkwall. I was born in Fair Isle, and I lived there till two years and nine months ago. There are between thirty and forty families in Fair Island. They live chiefly by fishing for cod, ling, and saith. They fish chiefly in summer. They have always had to sell their fish to the proprietor, that being a condition of their holding their farms. Their farms are from four to six acres in extent, with a right to the scattald. I believe since I left, they are not allowed to pasture their cattle on the scattald without paying for it. The island belonged, when I first remember, to Mr. Stewart of Brough, in Orkney, whose tacksmen were first Mr. William Strachan, Dundee, and afterwards John Hewison, Westray. Mr. Bruce bought the island about 1864. I remember for about fifteen or twenty years before 1864. I am thirty-five years of age. The people had to sell all their fish to Mr. Strachan and Mr.
Hewison. They were told so by them. It was always the custom to sell their fish to the tacksman, who also kept a shop for the sale of goods. There was always a shop, but sometimes no goods were in it. I have seen it without meal for more than ten days, and then the people had no resource but fish, or milk, or anything they could get. That happened in summer. In winter the people always had a supply of meal of their own. There are three or four water-mills on the island, where the people grind their own meal. They are the old-fashioned little mills usual in Shetland. When Mr. Bruce got the property, the meal and goods generally became dearer than they were before. I don"t think we have ever wanted meal altogether since he bought the island. We have had to send to Sumburgh for it, but have generally got a supply before our meal was quite done. Sometimes, however, it has been very scarce.
When Strachan and Hewison had the island, any one might come to the island to trade; and sometimes James Rendall, of Westray, and sometimes James Smith, Cunningsburgh, came with boats bringing goods and meal. They sold about the same rates as Hewison and Strachan. The reason why we ran short was, that we could not got notice sent. The steamer did not use to stop for us then, but now we get her to stop for a letter. We have had to sell the fish to Mr. John Bruce, jun. and to him only, since Mr. Stewart sold the island. The price of fish has been fixed by the man who comes to settle, which is in June or July. That settlement is for the previous year, up to the 1st of May immediately preceding. I have seen them miss a year. I have been told that Mr. Bruce has missed a year since I came to Kirkwall. There are very few pa.s.s-books.
The accounts are all read over to us. We couldn"t always remember everything we had got. I suppose we had just to take it as it was. The factor on the island read over the accounts, and he handed a note of the total to Mr. Bruce and Mr. Irvine, who came to settle with us. We got cash if there was a balance in our favour, but never in the course of the season. We never asked for money during the season; it was no use to ask for it, for we would not get it. I don"t remember if any one ever asked for it. We could sometimes buy from Rendall, who is the only person that has come to trade there since Mr. Bruce bought the island. Since Mr. Bruce came, he has not had liberty to trade; and he erected a stage on the seash.o.r.e, and people bought from him there. Formerly he and Smith carried on their trade in the house where they lodged. I suppose Mr. Bruce had forbidden that; at least all the people understood so. They used to lodge with Mrs. Thomas Wilson, near the sh.o.r.e. Rendall"s prices were always a good deal lower than the prices at the shop. Their tea and sugar were cheaper. Mr.
Bruce has tea at 11d., and I remember once at 15d. a quarter; Rendall"s was 10d. or 11d. sometimes, I think, as low as 9d. There was not very much difference in the tea. Rendall always had sugar at 6d., common grey sugar; Mr. Bruce"s was regularly 7d. I remember [Page 425] Mr Bruce once had loaf sugar at 1d. per oz., or 14d. a lb., about 1867. I don"t remember his having loaf sugar in the shop at all at any other time. Rendall"s sugar, I think, was 9d. Cottons were bought cheaper from Rendall. His were 10d or 11d., blue and white shirting: Mr Bruce"s 1s., or once 16d. The prices did not vary much at Mr Bruce"s store from year to year. I remember quite well the price of oatmeal in Fair Isle during my last year there. I paid 30s. a boll. I sometimes got the price when I got it, sometimes only when I settled. I think I knew the price that year only when I settled. The account was sent to me that year after I had left, and 17s. of balance due to me was remitted. I know meal was that year 23s. or 24s. a boll in Kirkwall. Mr Alexander Gibson, merchant, told me so as I came down here. I have the account which was sent to me, in which the total amount of the shop account is entered to my debit (9, 13s. 4d.). The entry "By amount from the "Lessing" account, 6, 17s. 9d.," which is put to my credit, means payment for lodging to workmen, and for work done by myself at the wreck of the "Lessing" on Fair Isle.
The owners or insurers, I suppose, were the employers of the men who worked at the wreck; but the money came through Mr Bruce.
"By cash, left as a deposit, 11th May 1868, 3," was money I was fool enough to leave in Mr Bruce"s hands at previous settlement at his request. I left it in his hands as my banker. I can"t remember buying meal from Rendall on any particular occasion that I could specify. But I know I have bought it from him cheaper than I could get it at the shop. I got it from Rendall at 26s., and I am quite sure, that during the 4 or 5 years I was on the island under Mr Bruce, I never got meal at the store for less than 30s. I remember his (Rendall"s) selling goods at night; but that was for his own purposes:-to get his away as soon as he could. I think I have heard of him selling goods at night one time when Mr Bruce and Mr Irvine were there, when they were asleep, but I can"t give any distinct statement about that. In 1868, James Williamson, Kirkwall had men working at the wreck of the "Lessing," which he had bought. His meal was cheaper than that at the store. I had to buy some of Williamson"s as there was then none at the store.
That was in July. I was employed by Mr. Wilson, the factor, in quarrying for a store Mr. Bruce was building. That was settled in the account at the end of the year. All work was so settled I have already shown. It is the entry "By work with P. M"Gregor, at 1s a day, 13s 7d."
Six families left Fair Isle, and came to Kirkwall in 1869. We all left because meal was so dear, and wages were so low. They all left of their own accord. I am sure they all left of their own accord, and were not warned away by the landlord. About 100 people left, in my remembrance, for America in 1862.
Government helped them. There had been a great scarcity before that. In general, there is always a scarcity some part of the year.
They live mostly on tea, and porridge, and oatmeal cakes. In summer there is a little flour sometimes. They get plenty of fish generally in winter, chiefly by fishing from the rocks. [Being asked if he had anything more to say, depones:] Only about the beach fee in the account already shown. I got only the 3 for the whole half year I worked there. I wrought 22 weeks and a half, and I was to get 5s. a week; but he said because I left the work to work at the "Lessing" I should get no more. I wrote about it to Mr.
Bruce, who wanted a detailed account of my work, which I gave him; but I got no definite answer. When Williamson was working at the "Lessing," he was not allowed by the laird to employ men Fair Isle. The landlord or his factor said they would be put out if they worked to him. I was forbidden to work to him myself. Mr.
Wilson and Mr. Irvine both forbade me to work to him. I was told I would have to leave the island if I did. I was intending to go, and did go, and am glad I goed [sic]. I have been far better off since I left. I have had better wages, better food, and less work since.
The other people from Fair Isle who are here, would say the same, I believe. I think Fair Isle people would be better off, if they had liberty to buy and sell with any person they choose.
Kirkwall, February 8, 1872, MARY DUNCAN or QUIN, examined.
16,657. I live in Kirkwall. I was born in Lerwick, and lived there till 7 years ago. I have knitted for 20 years all sorts of articles of hosiery. I knitted both with my own wool, and for the merchants.
I was always paid in goods. I never got a penny in money. I was not much in need of it. I often earned 9s. or 10s. in a week when veils were dear; but generally less than that. I knew many women who depended entirely on knitting for a living; and they had to take the goods and sell them for half-price, to any one who was requiring them. It was sometimes not easy to find people who would buy. They had just to ask among their friends if there was any one who wanted the things they had. I know James Coutts, provision merchant, used to take the goods from knitters. I knew many people who gave them to him for tea and sugar, and sometimes meal. I have been in his shop when such transactions were carried on. I don"t know if Robert Irvine dealt in that way. I know Betty Morrison. I know that knitters disposed of their goods to her. I have seen her come to my mother"s house with tea and sugar for sale. I knew they were from parties who had been knitters to Mr. Linklater and other merchants. She told us who the tea was from, so that we knew quite well it had been got from some one who had been knitting. Sometimes, too, she would tell who it belonged to. We always got it cheaper than it had been sold in the shop. It was always dearer in these shops than in others, sometimes 15d. a quarter, and we got it from Betty Morrison for 10d. That was very common. Jean Yates, and dozens of others, hawked about goods got from knitters in the same way. I had to buy a great deal more dress than I needed, because I could get nothing else for it. Knitters have all plenty of clothes. Some of them I know have far more clothes than food. I always sell my knitting for money here.
[Shown veil got from Grace Slater, February 5.] I would get 2s. 6d. in goods for that, when knitted with my own wool. Seven years ago, and 3 years ago, when I was home, 1s. or 1s. 4d. in goods, according to the market, would have been paid at Lerwick to one who knitted such a veil with merchant"s wool.
[Shown veil from E. Malcomson, February 5.] I would get 1s.
6d. for the veil, wool and all, here.
Kirkwall, February 8, 1872, THOMAS PEACE, examined.
16,658. I am a partner of the firm of Peace & Love, drapers, Kirkwall. I deal considerably in Shetland hosiery, mostly bought in Shetland. I get most from merchants, and a little from private parties, knitters, who meet me at Lerwick. I go there annually. I pay both in cash. I don"t get any cheaper, or very little cheaper, from the knitters than from the merchants. I have bought as cheap from the shops as I can buy from knitters. I have no means of knowing whether merchants in Lerwick make any profit on the hosiery. I have been told I was getting goods in the shops at the same price they were bought in at. I never saw the goods bought in. I found knitters in Lerwick eager to sell to me rather than to the merchants there. They at first asked me 50 per cent. more than I could buy the articles in the shops. I told them they were for sale. I have had so much difficulty with them in fixing a price that I now buy the most of my goods from the merchants.
I think a cash system would be much better for parties. I don"t think it would affect my business as a [Page 426] purchaser from the wholesale dealers in Lerwick. I think it would be better for the knitters if they got clear with the merchants. I think most of them are in debt to the merchant"s shops. Any system would be better than running accounts from one year to another, and from the beginning of one"s life to the end.
KIRKWALL; FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 9 1872
Present-MR GUTHRIE.
LAURENCE WILSON, examined
16,659. I am a fisherman in Kirkwall. I was born and lived in Fair Isle till April 1869. I left because three of us were working at the "Lessing"s" wreck, and we heard we were warned for working at it contrary to the master"s (Mr Bruce"s) orders, and we left that we might not be warned. There was nothing to do at the fishing at the time worth waiting for, so I and they went to the work. I considered I was under no obligation to fish for him if I could better my circ.u.mstance any other way. I was only bound not to fish for any other man than Mr Bruce;-not to fish to him while I could get any other employment. The others who left, did not leave for that reason, but just to better their circ.u.mstances. Prices at Bruce"s shop were higher than in Strachan"s and Hewison"s time. Prices were very much raised at the time of the American War, when Mr Bruce got the island. I think prices were higher in Fair Isle than was necessary to cover the prices of carriage. I have no pa.s.s-book, for no pa.s.s-books were called for or used there.
[Produces account for 1868, obtained from Mr Bruce] It was sent to me after I left Fair Isle. "By amount from boat"s account, 4, 0s.
3d.;" that"s the price of fish. "By a quey, sold by auction at Dunrossness cattle sale, 19s., less money and auction expenses, 5s.
6d.-13s. 6d." We were not allowed to sell our cattle to any one but Mr Bruce. The factor told us. I never attempted to sell cattle to any one else; but no doubt others did. I left the island before the time when Thomas Wilson wanted to sell his cow to Rendall for 5, 10s. If that was so, I think I could have got more for my quey than 19s., but never was offered more. Mr. Bruce did not settle for the spring fishing when he came to Fair Isle in summer; but only up to the end of the year. I bought some meal from James Rendall in summer. It was cheaper than I got it at the same time from the shop. I can"t tell exactly the price paid to Rendall that year; but I remember well enough that the shop price was 30s. a boll. I bought from Rendall at 24s. in 1868, and Mr Bruce"s price was then 30s. Rendall was also cheaper than the shop in 1867. I got from Rendall tea at 9d. and 10d., while the shop was 11d. and 13d.
I am not a very good judge of tea. Rendall"s sugar was 6d.
(common soft), shop sugar of the same quality being 7d. Rendall"s loaf sugar was 8d. I have never bought that sugar at the shop; but I heard factor tell others it was 13d. a pound. I had no particular need of it at that price. There was no difference in the price of coffee. Rendall"s cottons were also cheaper, but I don"t remember the exact prices. I always keep my own account, and could check the account as it was read over to me by the factor. When I lived in the island I never got money till settlement, and never asked for it, because it was usual. Before Mr Bruce"s time we all went sometimes to Orkney for meal, but not since, because he sent supplies. That was partly because we did not need to go, and partly because in Hewison"s time we had leave to manufacture our own oil, and we went to sell it, and brought back supplies. We thought we had more of livers before than we got from Mr Bruce.
I don"t remember getting meal from Mr Bruce for less than 30s.
When Mr Williamson was in the island I got some from him 3s. or 4s. a boll cheaper. Rendall was forbidden in Mr. Bruce"s time to sell his goods in Mrs. Wilson"s house, and he began to sell them at the sh.o.r.e. I think the men in Fair Isle would be better if they had liberty to fish to whom they please. I think they would be better to leave it altogether; for it is a very poor place, and they are subject to many hardships. They remain because some of them are poor and in arrears to the master, and have not means to get away. The hardships are the want of a harbour for large boats: they never have crews of more than three men or two, and two boys. They are sometimes scarce of food in summer, and their boats are too small for crossing often to Orkney or Shetland, though they do so sometimes. It is often a great risk. Larger boats do come sometimes in summer and anchor in a small harbour. They sometimes haul them up; but a big boat can"t stay there when there"s a weighty sea on, unless hauled up. I know we got 10s. a ton less for fish than was paid at Grutness. It was only an account brought by others that I was to be put away for working at the "Lessing." I told Wilson I was going away, and he said he got no word from Mr. Bruce to that effect. After I prepared to go, Mr.
Bruce asked me to stay in the same farm. Rents were greatly raised in Fair Isle,-I know that by a letter from the factor a short time ago,-to the amount of 1 to 3 on each farm. Jerome Wilson, the factor, is my uncle. Most people in the Fair Isle are related to one another. Dr. Craig, now of Westray, Mr. Macfarlane and Mr. Arthur have been clergymen in the Fair Isle in my time. I think they always got their supplies from Lerwick. The women sell their hosiery to Mr. Bruce, Mr. Warren, Kirkwall, and James Rendall. All the wool is made up into cloth or hosiery before it leaves the isle so far as I know.
Kirkwall, February 9, 1872, CHARLOTTE SUTHERLAND, examined.
16,660. I live in Kirkwall. I am a knitter. I was brought up in Lerwick, and lived there till 1867 or the beginning of 1868. I then went to Edinburgh, and have been here since May. I was in Lerwick for three weeks in April. I lived with my father, and knitted goods, mostly for the merchants, but sometimes with my own worsted. I did not need to support myself entirely till my father died in 1866. After that, I knitted to Miss Jessie Ogilvy for money, and for the shops for goods. I never asked money from the shops. I got enough money to keep myself from private people; at least I had to be content with it. I had to leave Lerwick for that reason. Knitting does very well in Lerwick for those that have friends to live with and keep them, but not for me when I had to look out for myself. I knew a great many in Lerwick who lived entirely by knitting. I think they were paid almost entirely in goods. I think a number just take the goods out of the shops and sell them again to get their food, and money for rents. I have heard plenty of them say so. I know it was so when I was back lately. I could not say the names of any persons just now. Mary Ann Moodie was one. I never saw any of them selling their goods.
Our people were often offered tea or soft goods by parties who lived by selling such [Page 427] articles got from knitters. I knew that because they told us so. When they sell shawls or veils they get so much, and they take a line for the balance, and get what they want till it"s done, and sometimes more than they want, and sell it in order to get provisions. The women selling such goods would not name the one they got them from, but just that some one had got it for work, and had to part with a portion of it. I remember these women perfectly well. There was Betty Morrison and Jean Yates, who were in that custom for many years. They surely did a great deal in that way. They did not get the price put on the goods in the shop. I know that, because these women offered us 10d. tea for 6d. I did not take it, because I was always knitting and getting it for ourselves. I never heard of women bartering their goods for provisions in the provision shops. I never heard of them selling or bartering their goods to Robert Irvine or James Coutts.
EDINBURGH: MONDAY, APRIL 8, 1872.
Present-MR GUTHRIE.
GEORGE SINCLAIR SUTHERLAND, examined.
16,661. This sitting was held for the purpose of examining Mr.
Methuen before he went to England, but I have received intimation that he is forbidden by his medical adviser from undergoing any examination on account of his health, and I understand you have come here to speak, to some of the points on which I wished information from him?-Yes; he asked me to attend for that purpose.
16,662. You have been for some years in Mr. Methuen"s service?-Yes; for eight years.
16,663. In what capacity?-I had charge of looking over the agreements and settling with fishermen for the first five or six years; and I have since conducted the correspondence, and taken the management of his business.
16,664. Have you had the princ.i.p.al management of his business during his absence in consequence of ill health?-I have, during the last twelve months.