5582. On the land?-No; on the sea in a little boat. They will take any small portion of fish we may give them, and hand us refreshments in return.
5583. Do you get a larger sum for your fish in that way?-No; I never knew of any larger sum that was given in that way than the country currency.
5584. Is that practice what you call smuggling the fish?-I suppose so.
5585. Do you think it is much done?-It is not much done now.
Formerly it was done to some extent, but not to any great extent.
5586. I suppose there were some factors or merchants in the country who did it good deal in buying fish on the sly in that way at one time?-I believe there was at one time, but not so much now.
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5587. Did they give a higher price for the fish than the fish-curers give?-Yes.
5588. Was it a higher price than the currency?-Yes.
5589. Are there it few of these men still?-Yes.
5590. They do come from Lerwick?-No; they are just people living in the country.
5591. Do they buy the fish either green or cured?-They will take them more readily green than cured, because they cure them for themselves. The factor who buys generally cures for himself.
5592. Is the man who buys fish in that way generally a merchant who keeps a shop himself somewhere?-Generally he has a small bit of a shop.
Brae, January 10, 1872, THOMAS MOUNTFORD ADIE, examined.
5593. You are a fish-merchant, and the princ.i.p.al partner of the firm of T.M. Adie & Co. Voe?-Yes, the business is conducted in my own name, but my sons have an interest in it.
5594. Do you employ a great number of fishermen?-Yes, a large number.
5595. Are the contracts which you enter into with them different in some of their details?-As a rule they are much the same.
5596. Although there may be some difference, the general rule is, that in the home fishing the fisherman delivers his fish to you at a price that is fixed at the end of the season?-Yes.
5597. Have you tried to arrange with your fishermen for dealings upon any different system from that?-I have not.
5598. Have you not on one or two occasions made different arrangements?-On one or two occasions I have made contracts with some of them for a fixed price.
5599. That price being fixed at the beginning of the season?-Yes.
5600. Has that generally turned out well?-It did not turn out well in these cases. The price advanced in the course of the season, and I had to pay the men the advanced price in order to satisfy them.
5601. Would the men have been discontented otherwise?-Yes.
5602. Is it long since that happened?-It is several years now; perhaps 12 or 14 years ago.
5603. Do you think it would be any advantage for the curer or the fishermen if that system were generally adopted?-My impression is, that the fishermen would suffer, for this reason, that fish in the summer season are always sold at a less price, and any one buying green fish must calculate what he can give for them according to the value of the article then. By delaying the settlement till the end of the season, the fishermen take the chance of the price either rising or falling, but the probability is that it will rise, because salt fish usually sell better in the winter season than in summer.
5604. So that if the price were fixed at the beginning of the year, you think it would generally be fixed too low?-Yes.
5605. But both the fishermen and the master would take into account at the beginning of the season the probability of the price rising in winter, and the fact that it generally does rise then, would they not?-It is scarcely likely that that would be much taken into account; because when a man buys an article he buys it at the price of the day, and not at what the price of it may become. There is no doubt that would be a more satisfactory way of dealing if it could be done but I don"t see how it could be adopted, because no curer could offer to buy fish offhand at a price that would satisfy the fishermen.
5606. Is the probability that the fishermen would be discontented your princ.i.p.al reason for objecting to that system?-Yes.
5607. If it could be carried out, would it simplify your own business?-Yes, it would simplify my business very much. If the men had boats, and lines of their own, and did not need any advance, but had all their money to take, and I could pay it at the end of the week, it would simplify matters very much indeed.
5608. Under that system, however there would be difficulty in advancing the men?-We could not give advances to them at all; and if we did not make advances, they could not go to the fishing.
5609. Is the system generally followed in your establishment, that of advancing boats and lines to the fishermen?-Yes, whenever it is needed. There are solitary cases where men buy their own boats, having money laid past; but that is very rare.
5610. When they do so, do they pay the price by instalments, or do they pay down the money?-They pay for them by instalments on a particular principle of payment which has been adopted for the purpose. That principle is this: The boat is built by any carpenter the men choose to employ; the price is paid for it, and that is charged to their account. There is generally a hire of 2, 10s. paid every year for a six-oared boat; that is placed to the credit of the boat yearly, to enable the men to pay up for their boat, so that they may really have it of their own, because I consider it would be better for me if they had them. When the men buy their boats, I give them 3d. per, cwt. additional for each cwt. of fish caught to go to the credit of their boat until it is paid; and when once the boat is their own, they get that additional price into their own private accounts, and it is paid to them in cash whenever the price of the boat is paid up.
5611. Do you mean that you give 3d. per cwt. higher to these men than you give to men who hire a boat?-Yes.
5612. And you give that to a man who has a boat of his own to begin with?-If he has a boat of his own, he gets the 3d.
5613. Then, when you charge for boat-hire, you charge 3d. per cwt. in addition on the price of the fish?-No, we don"t charge that, but they get 3d. per cwt. less. For instance, the price this year for ling was 8s. The crew gets settled for that; and if they had been buying the boat, we put 3d. per cwt. to the credit of the account for the boat, in order to enable them to acquire it for themselves.
5614. And you would give the same advantage to man who possessed his own boat originally?-Yes; if he possessed his own boat, he would be better ent.i.tled to it, because then I would be running no risk. In the other case, the men might lose the boat, and then I would have nothing to get for it.
5615. But when you charge the boat-hire, the men are obliged to take a smaller price for their fish in addition to having the hire to pay for it?-Yes, and even in that case we are worse off, because the boats cost much more than the amount of the hire will cover.
We are better off giving them the 3d. to enable them to get a boat of their own.
5616. I suppose when the boat is their own the men take better care of it, and it will last longer?-Yes, very commonly.
5617. And I suppose they take better care of it even before it becomes their own?-Generally they do, although I have some men who take very great care of their materials even when they are hiring them. There are great differences in men in that way.
5618. Is that a system you have adopted yourself, in order to induce the men to become the owners of their own boats?-Yes, I don"t know any other curer who uses it.
5619. That shows that you have no interest in having the men hiring out a boat from you?-No; very far from it.
5620. How long does it generally take for a man to pay off a boat when he buys it in that way?-Buying it in that way, if their fishing was anything good, the boat"s crew would clear it in about five fishing seasons.
5621. It would then become their joint property?-Yes.
5622. How long does a boat generally last?-The [Page 139]
greatest length of time they are used for is 12 years; but very often they give them up when they are 6 or 7 years old. Perhaps the boat is not good, and they won"t risk it any longer.
5623. In that case, do they generally begin a new arrangement for the purchase of another boat?-Yes, for the purchase of a boat, if it is their own. If it is a hired boat, then it is thrown on the curer"s hands to provide them with another.
5624. What is the usual rate for a boat-hire throughout Shetland?
-I think 2, 10s. is a pretty general hire over all for such boats.
5625. I understand you settle with your own men yearly about December?-We commence settling about 12th November, and it takes us a considerable time to get over the whole of our men.
5626. Has each man dealing with you a pa.s.s-book?-No, not all, but the greater part of them have.
5627. But you wish them to have pa.s.s-books?-Yes; I should be very glad for them all to have pa.s.sbooks, if they would only keep them regularly. When it is a careful man, his book is kept regularly, and there is very little trouble with him in taking down his account.