13,258. Do you understand that if the men agree to these regulations they would be free from the obligation to fish, or is that obligation referred to in the clause, "The tenant shall be bound to observe the rules generally in force on the property for the time being?"-Of course it would be considered that they would still have to deliver their fish to Mr. Bruce at the current rate of the country; but although they have no leases, there is no man who has been annoyed on the property since the young laird had the management of it.
13,259. Have you sometimes heard the men complaining that they only got lispund weight?-Sometimes they did, but sometimes when we had to give them pecks we could not afford to give more.
13,260. When you sell pecks do you charge boll price?-No, we charge it little beyond that; but if we retail meal out in peck weight we lose a great deal.
13,261. Supposing 5s. 6d. was the quarter boll price in 1870, what would be the price of a peck?-We would not weigh it out in that way.
13,262. What would be the price of a peck if it was weighed out?
Would it be 1s. 41/2d.?-It would be somewhere thereabout; but there is not so much inlake [sic] in weighing out small quant.i.ties of meal as there is in other things.
13,263. But if you were selling a peck of meal when the price was 5s. 6d. per quarter boll, what would you charge for the peck?-I suppose it would be 1s. 4d.
13,264. That would be a 1/2d. less than the quarter of quarter boll?-Yes, I think I would charge about that.
13,265. Then is there any foundation for the statement of the men, that they only got lispund weight at the boll price when they bought it in pecks?-There might be but I could not say as to that.
It might have happened in some cases.
13,266. But that would be intended to cover the loss in weighing out?-If we take a sack of meal and weigh it out in lispunds and pecks, there is a great inlake [sic] and often when the meal comes wet there is some of it lost in transport, and when it lies long there is a great deal lost in the stores by vermin and in other ways, and the inlake [sic] must be met in some way.
13,267. Do you always read over the accounts of the men to them before settlement?-Generally.
13,268. Do you check them along with the men?-Yes; and Mr.
Bruce never enters the amount of their accounts until the men are satisfied with them.
13,269. You hand in the total amount of a man"s account at the shop to Mr. Bruce in order that it may be entered in Mr. Bruce"s own ledger for settlement with the man?-Yes. When Mr. Bruce begins to settle, the Grutness ledger is brought up to the office, and the accounts are added up and squared off. Mr. Bruce never enters a shop account in his ledger until he and the men agree that it is correct. Some of the men also have accounts of their own, and can compare every article as it is entered in the shop ledger.
13,270. Do you know what arrangements are made with the men about boats and lines?-There is no arrangement. They furnish their boats and lines for themselves.
13,271. Is that so in all cases?-Yes. If a man is not able to buy his boat, or when he is shifting, he [Page 329] goes to Mr. Bruce before the fishing season begins and gets an order for a new boat.
13,272. Is he expected to pay that up by instalments?-He is not asked for it until he settles matters at the twelvemonth"s end.
13,273. But is there a fixed instalment payable each year by a term of years, or is it paid just as the man finds himself able to do so?- There are some men with money to get who would be able to pay up the whole price of their boat at the first settlement, or the greater part of the price. That is seldom the case, but I have known it to happen. Generally they get twelve months" credit, and at the end of the twelve months any money that is due to them is entered the same as cash to account in Mr. Bruce"s books. Then if a man cannot pay his way altogether, the balance is carried on perhaps for several years.
13,274. How long is it before a boat that is purchased in that way is usually paid for? would it be three or four years, or more or less?-Of course it depends very much on the circ.u.mstances of the men. If it is a poor man who has generally been behind, he may have a balance this year against him, which may run on for half a dozen years always increasing, and his share of the boat may be in that balance.
13,275. You mean that his share of the boat may be very long in being paid, while the other shares may be paid up sooner?-Yes; but the expense of a boat is not very great. I don"t think one of the boats we have would cost more than 3 for the whole affair-that is, the material we give the order for.
13,276. Do you mean to say that a boat for the longline fishing costs only 3?-The material of it does.
13,277. Do you not use the six-oared boats here?-They are beginning to use the six-oared boats now, but they are very expensive. There are two or three now. I think there were some before Mr. Bruce came to the place, and now for the last two years their use is becoming general.
13,278. Has the fishing been carried on entirely with the small boats. .h.i.therto?-Yes; and I believe the small boats in general make most money.
13,279. How many men are in each of those small boats?- Generally three men, or two men and two boys.
13,280. That is a different system from what prevails in other parts of Shetland?-There is no difference, except that our men make more money than they generally do in the north fishing, and there are no men in Shetland who have to incur less expense for sea material.
13,281. Do you engage any fish-curers?-Yes, for Mr. Bruce.
13,282. Is the fee fixed at the end of the year according to the result of the fishing?-No; it is generally fixed at the beginning; but when a heavy fishing occurs, we generally advance their wages a little.
13,283. Do these men and boys generally run an account at the store?-Very little. I was observing from the books, that one man had as high a fee as 10 last year, and 12 the year before, and this year I think he is to have 10 again; and I don"t think he has an account of 1 in the book, or anything near it. All that he gets is a mere trifle; a few shillings up or down.
13,284. Do most of the people engaged in the curing get a large part of their earnings in money?-Most of them do. There is seldom a year when we do not have people from other estates curing for us. We get them wherever we can; of course at as low a rate as possible. They sign an agreement for the season, and then they are paid according to that agreement generally at Martinmas.
13,285. Are the tenants upon the estate bound to send their sons to the curing?-They are not regularly bound, so far as I know; but it is understood in the same way as with the fishing, that if a man has a son, and we can afford to give him as much wages as another, we are to get the preference.
13,286. Have you interfered with any boys going to other engagements, in order that you might have them for the curing?- There was one case of that kind last year, with the son of William Goudie.
13,287. Had he got another engagement?-He was not engaged.
His uncle is manager at the station, and he wrote me saying that he boy could get 3, 10s. of wages from another party, and that we would not get him again unless we gave him that wage. That was far higher for a boy"s wage than we were in use to give, and I told the boy to tell his father to come over and speak to Mr. Bruce or me about it. The father came over and told Mr. Bruce and me that the boy had been offered 3, 10s. and we distinctly told him that if we could not afford to give him the same wages, he was at liberty to go to any one he chose. I also said we could hardly believe that he had got such a rise, but I told him, and Mr. Bruce also said, that if he could get 1s. more we did not want the boy, and he could engage him to any one he chose. The father went home, but he thought that perhaps we would be displeased if he gave the boy to another, and the boy went to the store. He went with his own accord, and by his father"s instructions, and remained the whole season. He was a very good boy, and when he settled with Mr.
Bruce he gave him the same wages that he had stated, 3, 10s.
The father was a tenant of Mr. Bruce"s, but at first we could scarcely believe that the boy had got the offer of such a rise.
13,288. Do you believe now that he got the offer of such a rise?- Yes. The man was one of those who were examined in Lerwick, and that was his declaration, and I believe it to be true. There have been other cases where boys have not been interfered with when they had engaged with another party. Last year one of Mr. Bruce"s tenants had a boy who was engaged with another party to cure fish, and he would not come to us at all, and there was nothing said about it.
13,289. Is there any expectation on your part that the men whom you employ in the fishing shall come for goods to your shop?- No. We would rather be clear of it. The only trouble we have in the matter is to keep some of them from coming too much to us.
They want more goods than we are inclined to give them. We never lay in goods to induce them to come, while those who have plenty of money go to other shops, and perhaps never come to us at all. We never ask them to do so.
13,290. Do you think you would get as many and as good men to fish for you if you did not have the shop at all?-I think so. The princ.i.p.al advantage which the shop is to them is that when they are coming ash.o.r.e they require fishing material, such as hooks, twine, lines, and other things, at the place where they land, and before they go to sea again. We endeavour to get the best of that material for them, because there are always a great many complaints made in Shetland about the quality of that material.
Two or three years ago, when I was south, I went to two or three of the princ.i.p.al makers, and got hooks made on purpose for our trade.
We pay 41/2d. per 100 for them to the manufacturer above what other merchants pay; and the other merchants sell their hooks at 2s. 4d. per lb, while we sell them at 2s. 6d., being a loss to us of 21/2d. upon every 100 hooks that we sell, over what is charged by our neighbours.
13,291. That is to say, you get 21/2d. less profit than other merchants do?-Yes. I also made arrangements for lines and twine being made specially for us in the same way. For 2-lb.
lines, although we try to keep a better article, we charge only 2s.
2d., while I find that other parties charge 2s. 3d. for the same thing; and our articles are better, because they are made specially for us.
Boddam, Dunrossness, January 26, 1872, JOHN BRUCE, jun., examined.
13,292. You are a son of Mr. Bruce of Sumburgh, and you hold a tack from him of his property in Dunrossness?-Yes.
13,293. You have prepared a statement on the subject [Page 330] of this inquiry which you wish to appear as part of your evidence?-Yes.
[The witness put in the following statement.]
"The tenants on the property in this parish managed by me are at liberty to go to sea or to the Greenland or Faroe fishing, or to pursue any land occupation as they please; but if they remain at home and go to the home fishing, they are expected to deliver their fish to me and receive for it the full market value. This is one of the conditions on which they hold their farms and is, I consider, a beneficial rule for the fishermen. They must fish to some merchant, and as I give them as high a price as they could get from another, they are no losers, while I provide suitable curing and fishing stations, and these stations of mine are the most convenient places for them to deliver their fish.
"I am obliged to keep stores at some of the fishing stations for the convenience of the fishermen, to supply them with fishing gear, groceries, and other things which they may require. But no fisherman is expected or wished to take anything from these stores unless it is his wish to do so.
"Any fisherman can get the full value of his fishing in money from me at any time if he wishes it. I have never once refused to pay a fisherman the full sum due to him in money. And, in fact, there are many cases in which fishermen take nothing whatever out of my stores, but receive the full value of their fishing in cash.
"I have also fishing for me fishermen who are not my tenants, and over whom I have no control; and these are treated in every respect the same as my own tenants.
"Prior to 1860 the tenants on the property managed by me were permitted to fish to any one they liked, and the people were very much in debt, both to the landlord and to the various merchants to whom they fished-and, for the most part, could not pay their rents.
"The debts to the landlord averaged two years" rents over the whole property.