12,573. Did you ever pay less than the current price?-No; but we have sometimes paid more.
12,574. The men have no voice at all in settling what the price shall be: it is left entirely to the merchants, is it not?-I think it is left very much to the merchants with regard to the green fish.
12,575. Is the compet.i.tion for fish sufficient here to bring the price up to the highest figure?-Yes; there is no fear of that.
12,576. Are you prepared to say that any complaints [Page 312]
which the fishermen make to the effect that they do not get the fair current price which they ought to get for their green fish, as regulated by the current price at the end of the season, are unfounded?-We very seldom have such complaints.
12,577. But if there were such complaints, do you say they are unfounded?-I think the fishermen, generally are very fairly paid for green fish.
12,578. Are there not two prices for fish exported from Shetland, according as they are sent to one market or to another?-There are many prices. Although a current price is fixed, there may be a considerable difference in what the curer realizes. If a curer chooses to take the chance of consigning to a certain market, he may get more or he may get less than if he chose to sell here at what is the shipping price.
12,579. If a curer sends his fish to the Spanish market, for example, he may get a much higher price than by selling to a purchaser at home?-He may get a higher price.
12,580. Does he generally do so?-He generally does, because it is the best fish that are selected for that market; and if I choose to reserve a certain portion of any cure and take my chance of how the market will be going after Christmas, I may get more or I may get less. I may speculate in that way as I like; but every curer does not get the same price for his fish, although there is a current price fixed.
12,581. How is that current price fixed?-I cannot explain it very well. There is generally a great fight for about a fortnight between the purchasers from the south and the merchants here.
The south-country buyers come down here, and sometimes they come to terms at once but sometimes they go away without fixing if they cannot agree upon the terms. About the month of September, however, the price generally comes to a figure at last at which the bulk of the fish go.
12,582. At that time are there communications between the fish-curers here upon the subject?-Yes; they consult together as to the offers they have, and whether they are to hold for a higher price, or take what they can get.
12,583. Is it usual that the bulk of the fish is sold at nearly the same figure?-As a rule, the bulk of the fish go at one price.
12,584. And the current price, according to which the men are paid, is fixed by that?-Yes.
12,585. Do you think it would be possible to introduce in the fishing trade here a system of paying at short intervals for the fish delivered?-I think it would be quite impossible. We would be very thankful if we could do so. We would be quite ready to pay our own men in cash the same as we pay all the Englishmen. We get large quant.i.ties of fish from English vessels, for which we pay cash; and we would be quite as ready to pay our own men in cash as them.
12,586. Why is that impossible?-There are many reasons for it.
Our men deliver their fish at a great number of little stations all round the islands, and we could not have a person at each of these stations to pay them, without a considerable expense. That is the case with the curers generally.
12,587. You have only two stations besides Reawick?-We have more stations than that for receiving fish.
12,588. Would the factor who receives the fish not be quite competent to pay the men at short intervals?-Sometimes he might be there for that purpose, and sometimes not; but the difficulty would be with the men themselves. They would not be satisfied to have a price fixed then.
12,589. But part of the price might be paid as a bounty, as it were, and the balance might be payable according to the current price?- Such an arrangement might be made; but I don"t see any object it could serve because, if our men wish an advance of money during the fishing season at present, they can get it. If they wish money to pay for anything they require while the fishing is going on, we make no difficulty in giving them that advance, because we know they are delivering fish which will cover it.
12,590. Would not the princ.i.p.al difficulty in the way of such a system be the necessity under which the men are of getting advances in goods or cash during the season? Would they be able to hold on till the fortnightly or monthly payment without getting advances?-They only require a very small proportion of their fishing, either in money or in goods, during the season. The great proportion of it has to be reserved for their annual payments of rent and poor-rates, and various other things of that sort. The great difficulty would be with the men: they would not like the system, because they would feel that they would be losers by it.
12,591. How would they be losers?-Because no curer would risk such a high price in the summer season as he is ready to pay the men in the autumn, when he sees what he can afford to pay.
12,592. But when a certain amount of fish is delivered, it is quite plain that something will be due to the fishermen at the end of the season: would it not be possible then to fix a minimum price, below which there could be no reasonable expectation of the fish falling at the end of the season, and the men might be paid according to that minimum price?-That would only increase trouble, without any earthly advantage, so far as I can see.
12,593. The men would have the money in their own hands?-The men have the money in their own hands as it is. I believe that from all respectable curers they get money for any purpose they ask it for.
12,594. But they have to go and ask for it specially?-Certainly.
12,595. And perhaps they have to ask for it as a favour?-Well, it is a favour. The money is not due for the fish. They have delivered the article, but it is in advance.
12,596. You mean the bargain is that the fish are to be delivered as caught, but not to be payable till the end of the season; so that the mistake, if there is one is in making that bargain?-I don"t see that there is any mistake in it.
12,597. Do you not think the fisherman would be wiser to make the bargain to get his money paid as he wants it, instead of being obliged, when he does want it in the course of the season, to ask for it as a favour?-Such a system could not work, because in these boats there are certain expenses which must come off the whole crew. They may have hired men along with them, and they could not divide each day"s fishing or each week"s fishing, without a great deal of trouble and confusion.
12,598. Do you think the present arrangements between the curers and the men are so complicated that it is necessary to have only one settlement for the year?-I think the present system is the best that can be devised. It would be a complicated system if weekly payments were made; but there is no complication as it is at present.
12,599. Do you think the system that has been suggested would require too much accounting?-Yes; and the men could not take the time to do it, without being great losers.
12,600. Do you receive a large portion of your annual cure from the English boats which fish for you?-Yes. I suppose we receive about one-third of our cure from them. All the men who fish for us in these boats are paid wages, and they have a small allowance, called score money, on the fish which each man takes.
12,601. Do you buy their fish green at a fixed price?-Yes, at a price fixed with the master or owner, usually before the vessel comes out.
12,602. That price is a standing price for the whole season?-Yes, we take our chance.
12,603. And the owner also takes his chance?-Yes.
12,604. Do you think the men in these boats prosecute the fishing as vigorously and successfully as those in the Shetland boats, who are paid on a different principle?-They prosecute it with great rigour. Generally they are thoroughbred fishermen. They have all been apprenticed to the fishing when they were boys of 8 or 10 years of age.
12,605. Can you say that the practice which prevails in the Shetland boats produces a greater amount of energy in carrying on the fishing, and results in a [Page 313] larger capture of fish than in the case of these Grimsby boats?-I know that the Shetland boats catch more fish when competing with the others.
12,606. Are they equipped in the same way, or is there any difference in the style of boat or of equipment which would account for that?-They are very much the same cla.s.s of vessel as to size and equipment.
12,607. Are the English boats in any way superior?-No, there is very little difference. Some of the smacks we have are the very same, having been built by the same builders. I am speaking now of the Faroe fishing, and these English vessels are all of the same size and description.
12,608. Which system do you think the best of the two?-The best for the Shetland fishermen is to have their share. Our men are better paid than the Englishmen.
12,609. Do they take more from their shares than the Englishmen take from their wages, as a rule?-Yes. I know the amount of their earnings.
12,610. I have been requested to ask you this question: In what number of boats, fishing at one station to different curers, would these men be willing to accept the value of a week"s fishing, probably amounting to 20, and carry to their homes by sea, or undertake the subdivision of them more frequently than once annually, that at present?-I think I have answered that, or almost that question already. I have already said that I believe the men would refuse to adopt that system.
12,611. Is that in consequence of the trouble it would entail in dividing the fish?-Yes, and the time taken up with it. Besides, they don"t require it.
12,612. How do you account for the English boats coming north to compete with the Shetland crews, although they receive less for their fishing than the Shetland fishermen do?-They are fishing all the year round, and they come north to fill up their time when fresh fish do not pay them on their own coasts.
12,613. Fishing is their only employment?-Yes.
12,614. You think it is not likely to become the only employment of Shetland fishermen?-Not generally.
12,615. And you think it is not expedient that it should?-I don"t think it is. I think they all require something to do on the land as well.
Lerwick, January 24, 1872, THOMAS HUTCHINSON, examined.
12,616. Are you a fisherman and tenant in Skerries?-I am.
12,617. Who is your landlord?-Mr. Bruce.
12,618. Do you pay your rent to him?-No, to Mr. Adie.
12,619. Is he your tacksman?-Yes.