16,665. Has Mr. Methuen the largest business as a fish-curer in Scotland, both in curing herring and cod and ling?-Yes; particularly in curing herring, and pretty extensively in the curing of other kinds of fish.
16,666. You don"t say that he has the largest business in curing cod and ling?-No, I would not say that.
16,667. Has he stations on every part of the Scotch coast?-Yes, all round the east and west coasts of Scotland; also in the north of England, and at Yarmouth; and also at Howth in Ireland.
16,668. I believe that at one time Mr. Methuen carried on business in Shetland?-Yes.
16,669. Where were his stations there?-They were near Lerwick, at c.u.mlywick and Sandwick.
16,670. Are these places about ten miles from Lerwick, near Sandlodge?-I understand so.
16,671. Do you know the reason why Mr. Methuen gave up business in Shetland?-He gave up business there about six years ago, in consequence of the proprietor, Mr. Bruce, taking over the whole boats and crews into his own hands, in order to carry on the business himself.
16,672. Have you been in Shetland?-I have not.
16,673. Had you any acquaintance from books or otherwise with the way in which the business was conducted there?-I had very little experience in the Shetland business at all.
16,674. Who settled with the men in Shetland?-It was our managers there.
16,675. Are they in Mr. Methuen"s service now?-They were not regularly in his service. There was perhaps one man for one, and another for another year; but the books are in Leith, and they were always checked by one party there. The clerk who checked the books in Leith is still in Mr. Methuen"s service, and he could speak with regard to the settlement with the Shetland crews.
16,676. Did he go down to Shetland for that purpose?-He did not. He simply checked the books after they came here.
16,677. Had Mr Methuen a shop for supplying his men with goods in Shetland?-I am not aware that he had.
16,678. I understand he does not keep shops for that purpose at any of the stations?-No.
16,679. Has he any stations in outlying remote places?-In the Hebrides he has.
16,680. In those places does he carry on business efficiently without having any shop with which to supply his men?-Yes; they can supply themselves with what they want.
16,681. Where are those stations?-They are scattered all round the Hebrides: in the Lewis Island, and down in the Southern Hebrides, in the islands of Barra, Castleby, Vattersay, and the Uists.
16,682. Are the stations where the fish are delivered usually near the houses of the fishermen, or have they to go some distance with them?-The fishermen in the Southern Hebrides come round from the east coast of Scotland and go to fish there, and they build themselves huts in which they live while they are ash.o.r.e. Our coopers and women have houses or huts erected for them also on which they live. They take out a supply of provisions with them, which will perhaps last half the time.
16,683. Who do that?-The women and coopers; and they are always getting provisions back and forward when they are at the fishing; because, in point of fact, in the southmost part of the island of Barra and Castleby and Boisdale, there are no shops at all. There is only one public-house in Loch Boisdale, but there are no shops of any kind there. In the southmost island, Vattersay, is uninhabited, and the men take out provisions and everything they want with them, and they fish there during the six weeks of the fishing.
16,684. Where do they get their provisions?-They take them with them from home, or they get them sent out to them from the east coast.
16,685. Do they purchase them themselves?-Yes.
16,686. You have nothing to do with that?-No. In sending coopers there we allow them extra wages-what are called board wages-during the time they are there, being so much extra per week for going to these places and supplying themselves.
16,687. Is that the universal practice in the Lewis fisheries with all the other fish-curers?-It is. They have coopers to whom they allow so much extra when they are at that fishing.
16,688. But do they follow the same practice with regard to their fisheries?-The fishermen simply get the price per cran which is agreed upon. They are not supplied with provisions at all.
16,689. Is it not the case that there are curers in the Lewis who have shops in Stornoway and other places?-In Stornoway they have shops.
16,690. Are these shops usually kept by the curers?-The curers usually advance money to their fisheries; or if they are from home, they give them a line to the merchant"s shop with which they can get any small provisions they require during the time they are out.
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16,691. But do the families of the resident fishermen get supplies from the curers in Stornoway?-Yes; they usually give them a line if they are in poor circ.u.mstances.
16,692. Have you any West Highland fishermen in your employment in the Hebrides?-A good many. Last year we had altogether about 270 boats both from the east and west coast, fishing in the Hebrides, at the west coast fishing.
16,693. Did you find that the West Highland men and men resident in the Hebrides were able to supply themselves with provisions in the same way as the east coast men?-No. They are not the same cla.s.s at all, they are not in the same good circ.u.mstances as the east coast men. We usually advance meal and money and materials before they can go to the fishing at all.
16,694. Do you give supplies of meal?-Yes, we usually give them some.
16,695. But I suppose that is merely for their own use during the fishing?-Yes. There is a shop in Stornoway upon which we give the men an order to get any meal they want; but, these men are of the poorer cla.s.s.
16,696. Have you had any difficulty in getting fishermen in consequence of the necessity they are under for getting advances, and the habit they have got into of receiving advances from the curers in Stornoway?-No; I cannot say that there ever was a short supply of fishermen. At some shops the fishermen had fallen behind in a bad season, and required some advances before they could commence another season, and in that case the merchants have given them the advance they required, and the men fished for them, as it were, without a stated agreement.
16,697. Is that the case everywhere, or are you speaking of a particular locality?-I am speaking more particularly of the northern and western coasts. The practice is quite different along the Moray coast, where the men are in better circ.u.mstances, owing to the fact that they have lately had a number of years of successful fishings.
16,698. What is the kind of agreement which you usually make with your fishermen in the Hebrides?-The fishermen who are in independent circ.u.mstances agree to a stated price per cran, while the fishermen who require advances usually agree to what is called the current rates given to debted boats. That is usually is to 1s. to 2s. under the free crews; 1s. below has been the usual custom.
These have been the general terms of debted boats.
16,699. Is that exactly the same system as is followed at Wick?- Yes; the same system prevails all round the north and west coasts.
16,700. Is there a large proportion of the men in the Lewis fishery who fish upon the terms you have last mentioned?-In some years there are more than others. Of course, if they had had a successful season, there would be fewer of them fishing on these terms next season.
16,701. Will there be one half of them, on the average, who engage on these terms?-Yes; I should say there would be one half of them on the west coast, but not on the east coast.
16,702. In speaking of these men, do you refer to men who are the owners themselves of the vessels in which they fish? I understand that the vessels generally are owned by one or two men, and that the rest are hired men?-That is the case on the east coast, but it is not so on the west. There they usually share and share alike, and probably four or five men have a boat between them, becoming jointly liable.
16,703. Then each man who has a share of a boat gets a share of the fish which are taken by that boat?-That is usually the way.
The boat gets one share which goes to the skipper of the boat, as they call him, and the rest of the men get equal shares. In the herring fishing at Wick, the usual way is for one man to own the boat and materials, and to agree so many hired men for the fishing.
16,704. Do you think that a system of paying the men when they deliver their fish would have the effect of keeping them from getting so much into debt as they do now?-I think it would be difficult to work such a system in the far north, or in the Western Hebrides. We could not pay them on delivery there, so as to keep them out of debt. It would certainly be an advantage for all parties concerned if the fishermen would agree to be paid by a price on delivery, as is done on the Fifeshire coast; but from the fact of their being so heavily in debt, and so much enc.u.mbered in these northern places, they require some advance before they are able to go to the fishing at all; and it is only perhaps one half of the fishermen who are in an independent position to make terms.
16,705. You think such a system would be an advantage to you because it would simplify your accounts?-Yes; and it would save a great many debts. We reckon that probably 50 per cent. of the amount due by those debted boats is lost to us altogether in our books.
16,706. In what way does that happen?-They run into debt, and get so hopeless, that we have to mark them off as bad debts.
16,707. Does that happen even in your case where you have no shop?-Yes, even where we have no shop or anything of the kind; because, when the fishermen get so hopelessly into debt they don"t care what they do, and very often they throw up the fishing altogether and leave the debt. We have had thousands of pounds knocked off in that way as bad debts.
16,708. In what way were these debts incurred?-By advancing the fishermen and trying to get them clear.
16,709. Do you mean advancing them money?-Advancing them money and materials, such as lines and hooks, and always trying to get them to fish clear; but instead of that, some of them go so much behind that their case becomes, quite hopeless.
16,710. Are you speaking now of the boat-owners at Wick and the sharesmen in the Lewis fishing?-Yes; there are a good many debts incurred among them.
16,711. Do these men have ledger accounts in your books, or is there an account for each crew?-We have no individual accounts with the partners. The account is usually headed, So and so and crew, and the place where he belongs to.
16,712. But if you kept a shop and supplied them with goods- as you say the curers in Stornoway do who have shops-there could then be individual accounts in your books?-The curers in Stornoway have not got shops, but they usually give the fishermen an order upon a particular shop where they can go and get supplies. The fish-curers are not the owners of the shops themselves.
16,713. In Wick, I understand, a somewhat similar custom prevails of giving orders upon shops?-Yes; the orders are given upon the shops to get the fishermen supplied during the time of the fishing.